Heather dissapoints

[Erichalfbee]

Perhaps it needs to be raw rather than organic.

 

[fiat500bee]

Please don’t burst ma bubble and tell me the beeswax smell is due to an E number ( I’m beginning to lose the will to live now)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The premier grade thin unwired foundation comes in a sealed packet and when you open the packet the smell of beeswax is amazing.

The 'premier' grade foundation Is predominantly (so I'd led to believe) made from the wax brought in on the wax exchange system, which is why it's usually darker and less pristine looking than the bog standard. so could have come from anywhere - I wouldn't pay a premium for it.

 

[Speybee]

The 'premier' grade foundation Is predominantly (so I'd led to believe) made from the wax brought in on the wax exchange system, which is why it's usually darker and less pristine looking than the bog standard. so could have come from anywhere - I wouldn't pay a premium for it.

I have bought 4 packets of the premier thin unwired wax and it is very pale in colour and the smell of beeswax is overpowering.
Perhaps I’ve been truly fortunate as it is on one of my bi-yearly trips to Newburgh I buy it from the shop....or perhaps Brian is probably thinking ....[its that crabbit old bat Speybee I’d better give her the quality stuff I keep hidden behind the counter, or I’ll never get peace]

 

[fiat500bee]

If it were tainted with acids/oils etc [ we sprinkle acetic acid on our chips? We drizzle olive oil on our salad leaves]

....oxalic and thymol on your fish supper...yummy.

Contaminated with what precisely?

....see above for a start. Maybe your friend already gave you some idea and you'll easily find information in the usual places. I'm not going to link to them because many of the sources are websites with other, minority, pseudo-science, beekeeping ideas mixed up with information about foundation; I think treatment-free/natural beekeping sites have other agendas (many of which I identify with) which taint (pardon the pun) some otherwise valid ideas.

I know I'm taking this a bit far; I don't even want my honey to get anywhere near chemicals even though I'm aware that they will be ingesting all sorts of undesirable compounds whilst foraging and even my hives are made from plastic! But I would actually be eating this stuff and it is so easy to avoid by letting them make their own comb from scratch.

 

[Speybee]

Perhaps it needs to be raw rather than organic.

Does the human digestive system actually break down the wax thereby releasing and absorbing these “contaminants” ? Or does it just pass silently through?

I think you could be quite at home in Deutschland as I am led to believe their bogs have a shelf where you can inspect the evidence before you flush

 

[Speybee]

....oxalic and thymol on your fish supper...yummy.



....see above for a start. Maybe your friend already gave you some idea and you'll easily find information in the usual places. I'm not going to link to them because many of the sources are websites with other, minority, pseudo-science, beekeeping ideas mixed up with information about foundation; I think treatment-free/natural beekeping sites have other agendas (many of which I identify with) which taint (pardon the pun) some otherwise valid ideas.

I know I'm taking this a bit far; I don't even want my honey to get anywhere near chemicals even though I'm aware that they will be ingesting all sorts of undesirable compounds whilst foraging and even my hives are made from plastic! But I would actually be eating this stuff and it is so easy to avoid by letting them make their own comb from scratch.

There are traces of oxalic acid in rhubarb.
There are traces of thymol in the herb thyme.

Regarding my fish supper all I need is for the chippy to have a sign up proclaiming
‘The Green Machine, we call the sea
Is full of plastic and mercury
Do not worry, Never fear
All that detergent keeps it clear’

Before we know it, honey will be regarded as an unsafe product because it made using ‘contaminated’ premier thin unwired wax foundation.
It only takes a wee whisper like this to gain ground and destroy sales.
It reminds me of that unfortunate loon Gerald Ratner who overnight destroyed his business by sharing that his “jewellery was cheap because it was crap”

Perhaps the wee phrase “dinnae fash yerself and keep the Heid”,would be proportionate?
And I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, regarding the pseudo science...it’s on a par with the flat earth society.

 

[fiat500bee]

There are traces of oxalic acid in rhubarb.
There are traces of thymol in the herb thyme.

We could play this "game" forever...there's famously quite a lot of phosphoric acid in Coca Cola and it's a chemical (phosphoric acid) which I use a lot...it literally dissolves rust from the most corroded pieces of steel.

For most people, the amount of comb honey they eat in their lives will be neligible to non-existent...it doesn't really matter. For me, the idea of eating wax isn't appealing in any case so it's easy to find reasons to avoid it.

I have to admit there are some poisons I choose to consume...particularly to drink, and I will poo-poo anyone who tries to persuade me not to do so.

 

[Speybee]

We could play this "game" forever...there's famously quite a lot of phosphoric acid in Coca Cola and it's a chemical (phosphoric acid) which I use a lot...it literally dissolves rust from the most corroded pieces of steel.

For most people, the amount of comb honey they eat in their lives will be neligible to non-existent...it doesn't really matter. For me, the idea of eating wax isn't appealing in any case so it's easy to find reasons to avoid it.

I have to admit there are some poisons I choose to consume...particularly to drink, and I will poo-poo anyone who tries to persuade me not to do so.

The only thing I am trying to persuade you to do, is not spread rumour about the safety of premier thin unwired foundation that some beekeepers use in the production of comb honey, as that is how consumers soon turn their back on a perfectly safe product and a market is destroyed.

I don’t want to sound like I’ve boiled ma onion.....but....No offence, but losing sales are not a game.

 

[Speybee]

We could play this "game" forever...there's famously quite a lot of phosphoric acid in Coca Cola and it's a chemical (phosphoric acid) which I use a lot...it literally dissolves rust from the most corroded pieces of steel.

For most people, the amount of comb honey they eat in their lives will be neligible to non-existent...it doesn't really matter. For me, the idea of eating wax isn't appealing in any case so it's easy to find reasons to avoid it.

I have to admit there are some poisons I choose to consume...particularly to drink, and I will poo-poo anyone who tries to persuade me not to do so.

Point taken

 

[fiat500bee]

The only thing I am trying to persuade you to do, is not spread rumour about the safety of premier thin unwired foundation that some beekeepers use in the production of comb honey, as that is how consumers soon turn their back on a perfectly safe product and a market is destroyed.

No offence, but losing sales are not a game.

That's a very specific "rumour" I would be spreading and I hope that anyone else reading this doesn't see it that way. But you've said yourself that you've heard similar from others so I think you're safe to consider that my untutored musings will have not affect the market for cut-comb honey in any way.

I am hereby tired retired from this subject. ⏭

 

[Speybee]

That's a very specific "rumour" I would be spreading and I hope that anyone else reading this doesn't see it that way. But you've said yourself that you've heard similar from others so I think you're safe to consider that my untutored musings will have not affect the market for cut-comb honey in any way.

I am hereby tired retired from this subject. ⏭

Touché. Speaking as someone of the generation that is retired and not retarded.

 

[Speybee]

We could play this "game" forever...there's famously quite a lot of phosphoric acid in Coca Cola and it's a chemical (phosphoric acid) which I use a lot...it literally dissolves rust from the most corroded pieces of steel.

For most people, the amount of comb honey they eat in their lives will be neligible to non-existent...it doesn't really matter. For me, the idea of eating wax isn't appealing in any case so it's easy to find reasons to avoid it.

I have to admit there are some poisons I choose to consume...particularly to drink, and I will poo-poo anyone who tries to persuade me not to do so.

Make mine a double Grouse Nite nite Fiatbee

 

[BugsInABox]

The problem with evidence and links is it’s always retrospective. Sometimes you just have to make a sensible call. I guess the bovine farmers wished they’d got ahead of the science that said all was safe when common sense was suggesting that recycling cows into cow food was not the best idea. I haven’t got the links but as some of the various ‘icides used over the last decade(s) were wax soluble and the same wax has been infinitely mixed and recycled over and over by beeks and foundation makers for years - surely at least pausing for reflection is worthwhile.
Thinking about the type of concerns that a typical cut comb customer might have perhaps we would be better considering this ourselves, even if it’s uncomfortable or troublesome, before some sort of scare makes us look luditic.

 

[mdotb]

If it is contaminated, please share the facts or links as, I would not like to mislead future consumers when my colonies manage to produce some comb honey which is safe for human consumption.
I would have thought that if the wax is contaminated, I would be one of the first folk, to be beating my gums over it, with the supplier.

2015 study attempting to develop a repeatable method of analysing beeswax. Peer reviewed journal.
http://fulir.irb.hr/3051/1/Baranovic_J_Apicult_Science_59_2015_37.pdfRelevant findings:
Tested samples were all foundation. Most samples (92%) from European beekeeping suppliers or foundation manufacturers. 8% rest-of-world (Russia, Argentina, China).
11% of samples were considered "pure" by the study.
Overwhelming majority contained >5% paraffin wax
About 40% of samples were >20% paraffin wax
About 20% of samples were >70% paraffin wax

It did not test for, and makes no claims about, the presence of things like pesticides/acaricides which have been shown to have wax residues, but I'm not aware of work looking for them in foundation specifically. They were looking for beeswax/paraffin wax ratios.
It does not comment on the suitability of the wax for consumption. Some paraffin waxes are used in food products. And it does not state whether any of the wax samples were "thin", labelled "premium" or otherwise.
However it does conclude that foundation is not often pure beeswax, which should perhaps be considered when choosing between trust and testing for its other properties.

 

[BugsInABox]

The problem with evidence and links is it’s always retrospective. Sometimes you just have to make a sensible call. I guess the bovine farmers wished they’d got ahead of the science that said all was safe when common sense was suggesting that recycling cows into cow food was not the best idea. I haven’t got the links but as some of the various ‘icides used over the last decade(s) were wax soluble and the same wax has been infinitely mixed and recycled over and over by beeks and foundation makers for years - surely at least pausing for reflection is worthwhile.
Thinking about the type of concerns that a typical cut comb customer might have perhaps we would be better considering this ourselves, even if it’s uncomfortable or troublesome, before some sort of scare makes us look luditic.
Speybee - if you can see the threat to sales maybe its worth protecting yourself by not using it for cut comb - whatever the science. Sooner or later someone will whisper something to the Daily Mail - again whatever the science - then it’s too late.

 

[BugsInABox]

Speybee - if you can see the threat to sales maybe its worth protecting yourself by not using it for cut comb - whatever the science. Sooner or later someone will whisper something to the Daily Mail - again whatever the science - then it’s too late.

 

[Speybee]

Speybee - if you can see the threat to sales maybe its worth protecting yourself by not using it for cut comb - whatever the science. Sooner or later someone will whisper something to the Daily Mail - again whatever the science - then it’s too late.

The Daily Wail, source of dangle a sprat to catch a mackerel source of whispers
I have not managed to produce viable cut comb yet as I fed my 2 hives on the Heather, sugar syrup to encourage them to draw out the thin premier unwired wax foundation...so that bombed.

I’m thinking ahead to next season and yes I will be asking supplier if thin premier unwired wax is made from cappings or recycled wax from frames.

I have just found out that BS Supplies in Devon has premier unwired wax in stock, guaranteed free from pesticide residues, sterilised etc ( it comes from bee farmers in Ethiopia)

But have been looking at the Ross rounds system as suggested by forumite Erichalfbee who posted great links on this thread about comb production

 

[Speybee]

2015 study attempting to develop a repeatable method of analysing beeswax. Peer reviewed journal.
http://fulir.irb.hr/3051/1/Baranovic_J_Apicult_Science_59_2015_37.pdfRelevant findings:
Tested samples were all foundation. Most samples (92%) from European beekeeping suppliers or foundation manufacturers. 8% rest-of-world (Russia, Argentina, China).
11% of samples were considered "pure" by the study.
Overwhelming majority contained >5% paraffin wax
About 40% of samples were >20% paraffin wax
About 20% of samples were >70% paraffin wax

It did not test for, and makes no claims about, the presence of things like pesticides/acaricides which have been shown to have wax residues, but I'm not aware of work looking for them in foundation specifically. They were looking for beeswax/paraffin wax ratios.
It does not comment on the suitability of the wax for consumption. Some paraffin waxes are used in food products. And it does not state whether any of the wax samples were "thin", labelled "premium" or otherwise.
However it does conclude that foundation is not often pure beeswax, which should perhaps be considered when choosing between trust and testing for its other properties.

I see this is a research paper from Croatia which is concerned with the adulteration of beeswax with paraffin wax which is more on a par with adulterating wheat flour with chalk.

 

[BugsInABox]

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