Have you lost any colonies to pesticides in the last 3 years?

[PBee]

Testing ....... Testing ....... 1..2..1..2..1..2..1..2........

 

[PBee]

You've lost me there PBee, for once.

As for evidence to the nth degree, I'd be happy with some evidence, any evidence, that there is a problem at the levels honeybees will encounter in the field in normal use of these things. Not planter dust, I know that is an issue abroad. I mean a problem with colonies dying or being depleted as a result of foraging on crops treated with neonics in the approved manner. There have been several large-scale and professionally run surveys abroad that compared exposure and colony survival or health and they didn't find a link, just a link to other things such as Varroa levels. We have bee farmers and others on this forum saying that OSR is a fine crop for their bees. And we have a new batch of scientific studies that used levels higher than the levels bees seem to be exposed to normally, including where they were fed directly with the stuff rather than being allowed to forage freely - it is only there studies that seem to indicate harm.

But if anyone knows otherwise, let us hear about it ....

That's the job of a good corner forward - by the time the big full back arrives all studs and stubble he's gone

As for the endless debate - I'm not hung up on specific effects but there is enough evidence to suggest they harm the environment, our bees (even if only in certain conditions) and ourselves and that's enough for me. Will that change the world ....nein. Does it mean I'll campaign against them in whatever small way I can ..... it would be irresponsible to do otherwise.

 

[Poly Hive]

Sighs... I warmed you about those hot car washes so the Bentley shrank eh?

Oh well no doubt they'll give you another....

Some need a serious reality pill, unpleasant tasting as they can be.

PH

 

[PBee]

Sighs... I warmed you about those hot car washes so the Bentley shrank eh?

Oh well no doubt they'll give you another....

Some need a serious reality pill, unpleasant tasting as they can be.

PH

No Bently's in this part of the world PH. Having a job keeping the pickup on the road ....

The old saying applies ..... If everyone agrees ....its probably wrong....

 

[REDWOOD]

Now we know why health and safety was invented, possible injuries none death yes

 

[PBee]

Now we know why health and safety was invented, possible injuries none death yes

We're all 2X4's round here

 

[REDWOOD]

We're all 2X4's round here

even with the right equipment things can go sideways

 

[Hebeegeebee]

.... so that ANY colony losses should be put down to "possibly partly due to pesticides" - without proper research data we can never know precisely............

Or we could say that colony losses COULD have been caused by space aliens from Mars as without proper research data we can never know precisely.

I think you just WANT colony losses to be caused by neonics;



the evidence as I write is that this is not the case unless you think that all 95% of the beekeepers who have responded are in the pay of the chemical companies and we are not telling the truth.

 

[domino]

I think you just WANT colony losses to be caused by neonics;

^this

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I haven't seen a spraying loss in decades now but back in the 70s it was very different. I am glad we don't use those chemical any more. I find most bee losses are down to poor beekeeping by the beekeeper, many love to blame other things like 'Varroa' but they just seem to be 'excuses' for poor beekeeping to me.

 

[DanBee]

I think you just WANT colony losses to be caused by neonics;

Agreed.

What I find reassuring about this poll is that there is no apparent way to see who has voted for what, hence you can vote without fear of being hounded for your response

 

[DanBee]

ETA: although since I have lost colonies to starvation, queen failure, nosema, and sheep in recent years, I had to vote for "Probably not - other cause of death more likely" to reflect that no losses showed any connection with pesticide usage.

 

[Brosville]

I agree, thank heavens for that "hence you can vote without fear of being hounded for your response" as without that anonymity, those 5-6% of people who lost colonies (which they suspect was down to pesticides) wouldn't have dared to mention it as they would have been hounded, villified and attacked by those who are keen to suggest pesticides are harmless, despite mounting evidence they are wrong........

As I remarked earlier in the thread, polls are notoriously difficult to get right to be able to get accurate results, and this one shows that so far around 40% of people have had losses, 5-6% suspect pesticides - what it does show is that there is cause for concern, and underlines the fact that we desperately need unbiased comprehensive testing before leaping to exonerate any pesticide (or combinations of "icides", which are not tested for!). When you have a countryside swimming in chemicals it is very difficult to pinpoint any one pesticide as being problematical, let alone the results of "cocktails" (work has shown that neonics can be rendered 1,000 times more toxic when administered alongside common fungicides)

Had anyone who urges caution with pesticides tried to extrapolate the results of a poll such as this as proving something one way or another, they would rightfully be laughed at....

 

[Hivemaker.]

Fairly conclusive poll up to now, no problems with pesticides.

 

[Chris B]

You could draw various conclusions and certainly not a big enough response to say much.
However, about 36% so far have lost at least 1 colony over the 3 year period. That does sound high to me, but it's a beekeeper count not a colony count so % colonies lost would be different.
The truly concerning thing is that those suspecting pesticide loss are not reporting it to the authorities. So official stats that are ultimately a guide to government policy could be badly skewed.

 

[Brosville]

Sorry, you can't say that from the poll (as I explained in my last post) - the only way to prove that is with research that is just not being done...

The 36% or so people who've suffered losses have largely put their losses down to "other" factors - now that could be entirely natural, partly (or not at all) due to pesticides, global warming, phone masts, David Icke's lizard people, or the Director General of the BBC, but nobody can claim "no problem" without definitive proof - (which means testing every single case of "losses" reported)- that is impractical, so at best the poll is based on "anecdotal" evidence, which would soon be rubbished if the boot were on the other foot.

Probably one of the most respected teams working on CCD is that at Penn State who have pointed to a "perfect storm" of factors behind the problem - many things that together cause problems - and a very difficult case to unravel

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA[/ame]

 

[Into the lions den]

You could draw various conclusions and certainly not a big enough response to say much.
However, about 36% so far have lost at least 1 colony over the 3 year period. That does sound high to me, but it's a beekeeper count not a colony count so % colonies lost would be different.
The truly concerning thing is that those suspecting pesticide loss are not reporting it to the authorities. So official stats that are ultimately a guide to government policy could be badly skewed.

Chris,

Have see a number of 'suspected pesticide' deaths in other peoples bees over the last few years. Would suggest that probably less than 10% of those would have turned out to be so. Pesticide kill is one of the most often used 'cloaks of innocence' beekeepers adopt when the true cause of death is their own neglect, The number prepared to admit their bees starved to death under their own noses is small. They look for other causes, and 'the farmer across the fence used pesticides' is the most common weapon of choice.

Only this summer I was aware of a case of 28 suspected pesticide poisoning cases in one small area. Investigation revealed no pesticides in any of the colonies, alive or dead, but food in the alive ones and no food in the dead and dying ones. The fact the bees had been left in a cereal desert, had their supers of honey taken away, and had no active crops to forage on..they were waiting for something else nearby to flower..........and had not been fed was of course nothing to do with it. To this day the beekeeper insists it HAS to be a poisoning case.

The three cases 'thought to be pesticides' linked tell us very little. Only way to go is to get it confirmed by analysis. Your bee inspector/NBU will do this for you. Surprised, given all the current hysteria, that NONE so far have a confirmed case.

We have not lost a single colony to pesticides or herbicides for several years.

We HAVE lost some to factors of our own making.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Probably one of the most respected teams working on CCD is that at Penn State who have pointed to a "perfect storm" of factors behind the problem - many things that together cause problems - and a very difficult case to unravel

They get CCD in the USA. We don't it seems.

If there were unexplained deaths of colonies - I am sure we should have / would have seen it on the forums or in this poll.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

As I remarked earlier in the thread, polls are notoriously difficult to get right to be able to get accurate results

Agreed, however this poll is a rare example of one that is very simple and the result is very clear. However not what you're wanting to see, I suspect.

 

[oliver90owner]

this poll is a rare example of one that is very simple and the result is very clear.

It may be simple but any claimed result will be misleading.

It is not often that pesticides clearly kill off a colony and usually for the simple reason of serious spray damage. That does not happen with these modern seed dressings. The results of their toxicity will be much less obvious in most instances. Perhaps most of us are suffering from this with our bee colonies without it actually killing them as the immediate effect. Guttation poisoning and air-drill fall-out are maybe not so common in the UK as found in some places.

The fact still remains that these nerve agents are in the environment and they are designed to kill. Their 'selectivity' is unfortunately not totally limited to the target species. A simple poll such as this will in no way come to any conclusion, as far as the safety of neonics is concerned, whether they have affected the honey yield or the size of the colony, etc, etc, let alone killing it.