Have you lost any colonies to pesticides in the last 3 years?

[Chris B]

Just a quick straw poll. The results of which might be regarded as evidence that pesticide are/are not a significant risk to our bees.

If you've experienced multiple colony deaths just vote for the one highest in the list.

I've used the 3 year time frame, partly to cater for sub-lethal effects, on the (imperfect?) assumption that anything significant would ultimately kill a colony.

 

[TOBY-3652]

No/ and the farm i live on use a lot of spray but they do tell me when there spraying rape and they usually do it early morning or last thing at night when there near my bees

 

[Chris B]

No/ and the farm i live on use a lot of spray but they do tell me when there spraying rape and they usually do it early morning or last thing at night when there near my bees

Vote above if you didn't already

 

[Brosville]

I hate to carp, but polls are notoriously difficult to get right, and I think that this poll's results could be misconstrued - as the researchers all round the world have pointed out, some of the most damaging effects of some of the newer pesticides are "sub-lethal", so that losses of bees could be put down to other factors, when the bees may have been weakened to exposure to pesticides, which later succumbed to other factors, so that ANY colony losses should be put down to "possibly partly due to pesticides" - without proper research data we can never know precisely............

 

[Chris B]

I hate to carp, but polls are notoriously difficult to get right, and I think that this poll's results could be misconstrued - as the researchers all round the world have pointed out, some of the most damaging effects of some of the newer pesticides are "sub-lethal", so that losses of bees could be put down to other factors, when the bees may have been weakened to exposure to pesticides, which later succumbed to other factors, so that ANY colony losses should be put down to "possibly partly due to pesticides" - without proper research data we can never know precisely............

I understand. Nothing's perfect. But the scenario you describe would end up in option 3. Anything else requires a degree of certainty that pesticides is or isn't the major factor.

But now you've had bees 2 or 3 years, what has your own personal experience been on bee health? And have you lost any yet?

 

[oliver90owner]

Again, as Brossy sort of indicated, they may not even have to die to be affected by these insidious neonics - they may just fail to thrive - which may well have repercussions further down the line (perhaps pollination rates, if not poorer crops, etc etc.)

Certainly a dark or pale (can we still use the term 'black or white'?) outcome cannot be attained and any conclusion drawn would be jumped on by one side of the argument or the other. Just not as simple as spray damage as at post #2. Sprays and pesticides are not necessarily the same thing.

 

[Karol]

I understand. Nothing's perfect. But the scenario you describe would end up in option 3. Anything else requires a degree of certainty that pesticides is or isn't the major factor.

Just as a couple of thoughts;

Why multiple colony deaths as an entry point?

Sub-lethal effects will theoretically impact on queen mating performance. Does your poll need to take this into account, i.e. loss of colonies due to poor queen performance?

 

[Hivemaker.]

No problems at all.

 

[TOBY-3652]

No/ and the farm i live on use a lot of spray but they do tell me when there spraying rape and they usually do it early morning or last thing at night when there near my bees// sorry i did forget to vote.. all done now

 

[gavin]

Sub-lethal effects will theoretically impact on queen mating performance. Does your poll need to take this into account, i.e. loss of colonies due to poor queen performance?

Karol, we've discussed this elsewhere and maybe on here too. Graham White, campaigner extraordinaire, wanted to ascribe his queen problems to pesticides but .... having asked the question of experienced beekeepers in and far away from arable and suburban areas .... the answer was clear. Weather, weather and weather impacts on queen mating. Plus availability of drones locally. Queen mating was just as bad in areas dominated by wild forage as in arable areas, when the weather there was as bad. I'll forgive you for the misapprehension as you don't keep bees, but you do read bee fora ...

 

[Into the lions den]

Weather, weather and weather impacts on queen mating. Plus availability of drones locally. Queen mating was just as bad in areas dominated by wild forage as in arable areas, when the weather there was as bad. I'll forgive you for the misapprehension as you don't keep bees, but you do read bee fora ...

Just back from the wildest west....as in a meeting with Devon and Cornwall beekeepers yesterday afternoon...............matings terrible all over, very few reporting anything even average in that regard. Not ONE over the three days ascribed their 'issues' queen wise to neonics.

A remarkably honest and open set of people encountered during my trip. I mentioned it at the last event, but will state again that their attitude was very refreshing.

 

[mbc]

Its not a bad call mind, almost anything less than perfect during drone development can lead to them being sub prime and subsequent queen failures.
It would probably be a good area to study, comparing sperm counts of drones exposed to low levels of pesticides and without exposure, drones are often the canary in the coal mine of our colonies.

 

[Jimbo]

My queen mating this year has been poor due to poor weather and no it has nothing to do with pesticides. All my colonies were checked for pesticide and chemical residues in wax and larvae this year as part of a study conducted by Leeds University. The result no chemicals detected in any of my colonies

 

[PBee]

Karol, we've discussed this elsewhere and maybe on here too. Graham White, campaigner extraordinaire, wanted to ascribe his queen problems to pesticides but .... having asked the question of experienced beekeepers in and far away from arable and suburban areas .... the answer was clear. Weather, weather and weather impacts on queen mating. Plus availability of drones locally. Queen mating was just as bad in areas dominated by wild forage as in arable areas, when the weather there was as bad. I'll forgive you for the misapprehension as you don't keep bees, but you do read bee fora ...

You were doing well until the little lapse at the end .... some variant of tourette syndrome?

 

[gavin]

F - F - F - F - F .... was that an insult?



From what I recall Borderbeeman did raise that as an issue here, and was put right by people who seemed to know beekeeping better than he did.

 

[PBee]

F - F - F - F - F .... was that an insult?



From what I recall Borderbeeman did raise that as an issue here, and was put right by people who seemed to know beekeeping better than he did.

Just a gentle reminder I think you will know there is a balance between practical and scientific training. I know lots of beekeepers that have neither.
Also, if you require evidence of the nth degree for pesticide harm at colony level the same should apply to queen mating.

Reminds me a bit of the GAA (football) I played as a child. The full back was (and still is) picked for his 'man management' skills and usually couldn't kick a ball! . Ninety percent of the crowd were there for the enevitable fight in which some duly took part ...... and that was only the under 10's!!

 

[gavin]

You've lost me there PBee, for once.

As for evidence to the nth degree, I'd be happy with some evidence, any evidence, that there is a problem at the levels honeybees will encounter in the field in normal use of these things. Not planter dust, I know that is an issue abroad. I mean a problem with colonies dying or being depleted as a result of foraging on crops treated with neonics in the approved manner. There have been several large-scale and professionally run surveys abroad that compared exposure and colony survival or health and they didn't find a link, just a link to other things such as Varroa levels. We have bee farmers and others on this forum saying that OSR is a fine crop for their bees. And we have a new batch of scientific studies that used levels higher than the levels bees seem to be exposed to normally, including where they were fed directly with the stuff rather than being allowed to forage freely - it is only there studies that seem to indicate harm.

But if anyone knows otherwise, let us hear about it ....

 

[Chris B]

My own recent experience on queens - going against the trend this summer has been pretty good for matings in spite of the weather. But we had high supersedure autumn 2011, at least 50% judging by the queens we found this spring.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I'd be happy with some evidence, any evidence, that there is a problem at the levels honeybees will encounter in the field in normal use of these things.

There is no problem, so no evidence will be forthcoming.

 

[Into the lions den]

There is no problem, so no evidence will be forthcoming.

lol.....you bet on that?

Even in that innocent post folks on here (ok, a noisy few) will see the rinky dinky fingerprints of the pestco bribe...............

Which no doubt explains the top of the range Ferraris you and your lad were driving at the Fox and Hounds the other day, and my Porsche, but...........them being supplied by big pestco they were VERY cunningly concealed.

Just been watching 'Conspiracy Road Trip' on the BBC iplayer. This place is starting to seem like such a nuthouse. Sticking another two on iggy tonight.

At least Brossy will now have company there.