hatching brood & eggs with nothing in between - whats going on?

[onriver]

I had a first quick look through yesterday - most fine but 1 failing miserably.

Plenty of stores, no sign of disease but no more than 50 or so bees, no queen seen. Small patch of brood had polished and ready cells with a handful of hatching workers, capping seemed fine, a few dozen eggs (single and centrally in the base of the cell) but nothing in between - no grubs, larvae etc.
OA treatment was on January 1st when I had no cause for concern - 5 seams of bees - and I've not been in since, so my first assumption that the queen had died or been killed doesn't fit.
So...
viable brood - workers, not drones
eggs present - not the pattern of laying workers, I think

She could have been there and was just returning to lay after a fortnight's holiday...?

Either way I think they're lost but I'm curious as to whats going on - any ideas?

 

[BKF Admin]

Nosema ?
Have you tested them..

 

[Finman]

.
50 bees and no queen?

First of April

 

[oliver90owner]

Nosema ?
Have you tested them..

If the OP does that, there will only be 20 bees left! Might not be enough to service more than two larvae, then!

Either way I think they're lost

The understatement of the week, so far!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Nosema,oxalic...often = death.

 

[onriver]

thanks - could be nosema but none of that distinctive sour smell when lid lifted off. no spotting or obviously runny bees (though I wasn't especially looking out for that at the time)
I had a full microscopic analysis done as part of the random sampling undertaken by the bee unit last year and received a completely clean bill of health for all pathogens for the 3 hives sampled. not that I'm assuming I can relax now but I was reassured as I've had problems with nosema in the past.
Probably is, though and no, I wasn't expecting to save them, just curious.
What does anybody think of the presence of eggs and hatching brood with nothing in between?

 

[Hivemaker.]

thanks - could be nosema but none of that distinctive sour smell when lid lifted off. no spotting or obviously runny bees

You mostly don't get any of those symptoms with ceranae.

 

[iand]

What does anybody think of the presence of eggs and hatching brood with nothing in between?

I have seen this quite a bit this season so far. If you work your dates out, it probably fits in with a few nice warm days. Then we get a cold spell so they decide not to risk anymore brood. Until the next promising spell of weather. Then same again!
As the daylight/temps improve they will move onto a more continuous production cycle.

 

[REDWOOD]

A break in eggs being laid but what is laying them now, looks like the queen has died and you have a laying worker but you said that the eggs are in the middle, you should have spotted the queen with only 50 bees, Was there stores when you looked last because if the bees stores are low the queen will stop laying, A bit of a mystery this one, Hope you sort it out.

 

[onriver]

I know - I'm intrigued! there were and are plenty of stores as well as room to expand and the brood and super means there is room for a queen to hide - just did a quick look and couldn't find her so checked the eggs again - as I said, laid singly and in the base of each cell to a nice, if small laying pattern - she must be there somewhere and, as iand says, the cause is changes in temperature.
Most of the other hives, though, are roaring away in contrast with 7 /8 frames of brood and stores piling in already - when we OA'd them in January, all pretty similar!

 

[Nightynight]

I know - I'm intrigued! there were and are plenty of stores as well as room to expand and the brood and super means there is room for a queen to hide - just did a quick look and couldn't find her so checked the eggs again - as I said, laid singly and in the base of each cell to a nice, if small laying pattern - she must be there somewhere and, as iand says, the cause is changes in temperature.
Most of the other hives, though, are roaring away in contrast with 7 /8 frames of brood and stores piling in already - when we OA'd them in January, all pretty similar!

try a test of brood frame. If you think you have a hive is strong enough try moving an entire comb over complete with nursing bees (shake comb to remove older flyers/scout bees' and spray comb & nursing bees with (warm body temp) sugar water) before insertion into weaker hive

 

[oliver90owner]

try a test of brood frame.

Effectively a 'one frame' nuc in a full sized hive at this time of the year? Not a trick that I would try.

 

[MuswellMetro]

try a test of brood frame.

Effectively a 'one frame' nuc in a full sized hive at this time of the year? Not a trick that I would try.

agree, he says 50 bees??? in hive, not enough to keep anything warm or draw wax, could be just a demoralise rabble of workers or robbers in an empty hive

i would destroy and block up as it may be infected and i would not want them in other hives or to get robbed out( which i supect the 50 bees might be..robbers in a dead hive

 

[Moggs]

"but none of that distinctive sour smell when lid lifted off"

Be careful. Sour smells are often associated with the foul broods. I would be very concerned to detect this sort of odour emanating from any hive at any time.

 

[RoofTops]

If you really have only 50 bees the colony is going to die.

My guess, if the description of events is correct, is the queen has died several weeks ago and the eggs you can see are effectively chilled. There are too few bees remaining for them to develop. It would be a bit like expecting a bird's eggs to hatch without the bird sitting on them to keep them warm. 50 bees is about a tenth of the number of bees you would use in a mini-nuc let alone a full sized hive.

 

[onriver]

thanks for the responses - I wasn't intending to try and rescue the colony - there were insufficient nurse bees to cover the eggs even, let alone workers / guards etc., it didn'tsmell bad - I just meant that if you have bees restricted to a hive for a length of time due to bad weather then there is often an increased risk of dysentry with associated pong. I could add a frame of hatching brood to boost numbers but I can't see the point - this was a colony that didn't make it, unfortunately - the others did and 7 out of 8 I'm happy with!
I was just curious as to what went wrong and still don't know. I'll have a proper look through and let you know what, if anything, new I find

 

[browncow]

MM, I have a simular problem, what exactly do you mean by destroy and block up?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If the colony is diseased, you don't want other bees to rob it and transfer the disease. Therefore block the entrance before dealing with the hive components and making them fit for re-use.

 

[BeeJayBee]

MM, I have a simular problem, what exactly do you mean by destroy and block up?

There were 56 diagnosed cases of EFB in Hampshire last year. https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/public/BeeDiseases/colonyStatistics.cfm?year=2011

If you are unsure of the reason for your colony dying, or think your bees may have disease, a quick phone call to the Regional Bee Inspector (Region: Southern England) might be a good idea. He is Nigel Semmence. His landline and mobile numbers are on Beebase. https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/public/Contacts/contacts.cfm

 

[browncow]

BeeJoyful, I was aware of the problem of EFB in Hampshire last year and had Nigels assistant,Fraser, inspect my hives towards the end of last years season and found no problems, however he did say that the Q in this particular hive may need replacing this year.
Doing a bit of thinking now (I am only in my 3rd year) I think she has probally failed and to be on the safe side I think that I will start this hive from scratch after a deep clean of the hive.
Thank you for your advice.