Gwenyn Gruffydd Welsh black bees

[Swarm]

Other than that, please play nicely and stop all the name calling,

 

[Anduril]

You've just made my point, they all had a common ancestry yet they all developed into separate sub species there is a good reason for this?
Your buckfast would not likley survive in the wild without human intervention, therfore the genese its drones are spreading is hindering any chance wild bees have.
I totally agree that everyone should breed more queens to make up for losses before they even happen but I think people don't because it's to easy to buy a foreign queen that unlike your experience most do not report have good tempremant past f2 so they go buy in another foreign queen and continue the cycle.

Not really, Keith Delaplane looked at the route and time period. Just looking at Mellifera and Carnica. Mellifera moving west up through Gibraltar around 330,000 years ago, Carnica taking an easterly route into Europe across the Isthmus of Suez 300,00 years ago. Now if you take into account the similar latitudes and the many glacial periods of the time, there is nothing spectacular about being a different subspecies and showing local adaptability other than the glacial periods hindering their progress into different parts of Europe. They can both live in the UK quite happily.

 

[Anduril]

I believe he gets the nucs fait accompli from a local source rather than making them up with bought in queens for the Welsh blacks he offers.

In one of the videos he did say he was getting queens from Northumberland to put into the nucs, I believe they are AMM.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Aye unfortunately alot of people mix up their beliefs with what's best for uk bees. I like to call it soppy leftist views over common sense but hey ho people keep importing their bees and destroying the nations stocks because its easier and they are probably brainwashed that way. You think they'd learn after all the cock ups like to red squirrels but when we are complely reliant on bee imports because of it let's hope the supply keeps up.

You seem to forget there is a honey and pollination industry in this country.

 

[JamezF]

I'm at a loss to understand how one's politics relates to the merits or otherwise of importing bees into the UK. Preserving indigenous (sub)species of animal in preference to importing non-indigenous varieties is something one might often expect those of a more left-wing persuasion to support over those who are more to the right. Unless of course it comes down to "foreign bees, coming over here, pollinating our flowers..." etc.

"leftist", like "wokeist", seems to be a word the rabid right wing are trying to turn into a term of abuse for people whose (often) perfectly rational views they don't share and is probably best avoided if you're actually interested in having a meaningful discussion.

James

 

[MillMeadow]

Another thread derailed and degenerating into sniping and name calling, how sad

I begin to understand the frustration expressed in other threads earlier this week that had a similar trajectory.

Hoped this forum was all about the bee's when I discovered it but I guess this is the internet in 2022.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Hopefully they are not close enough to mix with the buckfast bees he breed

I know Buckfast are mongrels. Always when we talk about black bees these folk who are really keen on proper black bees are the first to point that out. Does it matter to the hobby keeper? The reason Buckies are popular is that they are gentle. So probably are proper black bees but many aren’t proper.

Genetically stable hybrid please

 

[Nige.Coll]

Because that was the point of the pheno type, it never breeds true obviously because its just a mix of subspecies so I don't get why people even call them buckfasts, they are not bred there, they are not what the creator sought in the pheno type.
No I'd say its because you can't reliably breed from 'buckfast' and create the same thing generation after generation that's why it's silly and that's why buckfast abby dosnt do it anymore, just a load of people using the name buck fast to sell bees.
Should really call them what ever crosses they are

You need to read more.

 

[Nige.Coll]

There should be a law to stop imports and protect our native stocks, bees are not humans with silly leftist opinions. They open mate so anything in the area directly effects their genes.
I'm against any imports, maby not so much AMM from close by, I don't care what if they are buckfast mongrels, carnica, linguista, a mix of any of them they should all be banned and people breed from stocks they have that way wild bees stand half a chance. AMM is still by far the dominant subspecies in this land and for good reason, all these imports just hinder their survival its not only selfish to use foreign genes but irresponsible to. Take a look at our native Red squirrel, cray fish or another species humans have cooked up with their arrogance and imports.

If AMM is still the dominant breed in this country after 170 years of imports why do you want to ban imports. It obviously doesn't matter.
Head up the AMM in England were brown not black.
The crap you import from Ireland that has come from Europe isn't native.
Thankfully hobby beekeepers don't make the rules. Maybe you should run for trustee of the BBKA.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I'd have to look but the average dna genetics show that amm is dominant in the uk and by a large number.
You can't breed bees like most other live stock though, your stocks and those around you directly effect each other hence why we have such a mix and match.
It dosnt seem to be the case, you keep your buckfast or carnica or linguistica and breed from them without importing more exotic genes and they loose their vigour quickly?

errm
Don't they use the same line breeding techniques for bees as used for cattle ?
Your ignorance is astounding.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Aye unfortunately alot of people mix up their beliefs with what's best for uk bees. I like to call it soppy leftist views over common sense but hey ho people keep importing their bees and destroying the nations stocks because its easier and they are probably brainwashed that way. You think they'd learn after all the cock ups like to red squirrels but when we are complely reliant on bee imports because of it let's hope the supply keeps up.

on the bright side with only 2 colonies it won't really affect you.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Yet the vast majority of Ireland is amm

Yup they imported them by the thousand after the IOW disease and WWII.

 

[rook66]

I'm at a loss to understand how one's politics relates to the merits or otherwise of importing bees into the UK. Preserving indigenous (sub)species of animal in preference to importing non-indigenous varieties is something one might often expect those of a more left-wing persuasion to support over those who are more to the right. Unless of course it comes down to "foreign bees, coming over here, pollinating our flowers..." etc.

"leftist", like "wokeist", seems to be a word the rabid right wing are trying to turn into a term of abuse for people whose (often) perfectly rational views they don't share and is probably best avoided if you're actually interested in having a meaningful discussion.

James

I wouldn't despair, what you describe is keyboard beekeeping. In over 45 years of beekeeping, attending conferences, seminars, demos etc both at home and abroad, I have never heard a cross word exchanged, in fact I found it nearly impossible to engage in discussion about anything other than bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Another thread derailed and degenerating into sniping and name calling, how sad

I begin to understand the frustration expressed in other threads earlier this week that had a similar trajectory.

Hoped this forum was all about the bee's when I discovered it but I guess this is the internet in 2022.

This forum is about bees and it's on the internet but I might argue with you that it's been derailed. It's been discussed.

There are lots of useful threads on here that are less noisy. Please join in those. you'll find yourself at home pretty quickly.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In one of the videos he did say he was getting queens from Northumberland to put into the nucs, I believe they are AMM.

There's the answer to the original question

 

[jeff33]

In one of the videos he did say he was getting queens from Northumberland to put into the nucs, I believe they are AMM.

I think they label them as Northumberland black bees without much more info and can be inconsistent with colour due to open mating, this is an honest description.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have one and she is pretty black

 

[jeff33]

Happy to call it a day on this one thanks.

 

[jeff33]

I have one and she is pretty black

I think it's the offsprings Dani. I had one early in the season to try, laid 3 frames and died.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Happy to call it a day on this one , thanks.

Yes I think so