Gwenyn Gruffydd Welsh black bees

[Blunt Spike]

If you’re a bee whisperer nothing chases you and you get buckets of honey even if it rains all year.
I have black bees. Some of them chase me. Maybe because I’m not Welsh?

To be fair, I have several colonies of black bees. I cant say they're pedigrees though. They always produce a really good amount of honey, but they're often willing to make me pay for it too. Whereas my buckfast are so gentle I think they'd pay me to take it away

 

[Blunt Spike]

Look at the royal family...this is what happens when you rely on a small gene pool!

Yes, Jim would be the first drone they evict for being a lazy sod!

 

[Anduril]

I agree, I don't know about Asia but read all the AM came from Africa originally.
That's kind of my point though, the AMM has evolved to live hear from a common ancestor of say the AML or AMC, they all evolved their diffrenet traits to best suit their environments.
That's why I think we should stop all imports of honey bees it's detrimental to all that evolution.
Talking of evolution if we did stop imports eventually all the bees hear would be alot more AMM if not 100% eventually as its the best suited to our climate.

No! All Apis Mellifera had a common ancestor. Take into account, the habitation of Doggerland and all the surrounding areas from Germany to Ireland and as far south as North Africa. All a habitat of Apis Mellifera Mellifera.
Of the Buckfasts that I have, one is an F4 and of good temperament, mine last between 3 to 4 years, so there is no real difficulty of surviving my locale. I've had British bred as well as Northern Europe and South America, all survive,
I have mongrels as well as AMM, they are all good and this year I am trialling the Jolanta queens. While I somewhat respect BIBBA, I take what they say about best suited with a pinch of salt, my experience is rather different.
The argument regarding banning imports, would put a high number of amateur beekeepers at a disadvantage all down to supply and demand. If there is demand on a yearly basis for early queens, then the sellers have to be able to supply that demand, that is the way it is driven. Cut the supply and our AMM breeders would not be able to keep up with the demand, we have a short season and not many breeders will have the capacity to rear early queens, they could supply last year's queens if they had the resources to ramp up their business model. But i remember at one time the Cornish black bee had a 2 year waiting list. In some respects the BDI insurance holds us back in rearing surplus queens for ourselves, if you have over the number of hives you have insured for, you are no longer covered.
To finish if we all bred some queens to overwinter, then there would be less demand, but this is something I cannot see happening in the near future, even if it is done as a cooperative. So what stops some of them is the temperament of their bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

To be fair, I have several colonies of black bees. I cant say they're pedigrees though. They always produce a really good amount of honey, but they're often willing to make me pay for it too. Whereas my buckfast are so gentle I think they'd pay me to take it away

I know Buckfast are mongrels. Always when we talk about black bees these folk who are really keen on proper black bees are the first to point that out. Does it matter to the hobby keeper? The reason Buckies are popular is that they are gentle. So probably are proper black bees but many aren’t proper.

 

[Swarm]

Look at the royal family...this is what happens when you rely on a small gene pool!

Imported

 

[Robinredcar]

Buckfast is Apis Mellifera, no?

Be a waste of money getting a dna test done to distinguish if it was a honey been or anything else lol, AMM, AML AMC it's the last letter that is the sub species, buckfast dosnt come into it just a mongrel of the above and more

 

[Robinredcar]

I know Buckfast are mongrels. Always when we talk about black bees these folk who are really keen on proper black bees are the first to point that out. Does it matter to the hobby keeper? The reason Buckies are popular is that they are gentle. So probably are proper black bees but many aren’t proper.

I think it matters, it's not a bragging thing it's because what every you have will mix into others and wild populations. It's not like having a dog

 

[Robinredcar]

Imported

That's a fair point!

 

[CaptainCymru]

I just have bees that fly , I’m relatively chuffed with that alone………

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think it matters, it's not a bragging thing it's because what every you have will mix into others and wild populations. It's not like having a dog

Sorry that’s rubbish. There’s no law in this country to protect Amm and there shouldn’t be either.
Nobody has a crack at carnica by the way. Are all these Carnies sold to hobbyists pure?

 

[Erichalfbee]

it's the last letter that is the sub species,

Yes I’m aware of that

 

[Erichalfbee]

I just have bees that fly , I’m relatively chuffed with that alone………

Amen.

 

[jeff33]

I think it matters, it's not a bragging thing it's because what every you have will mix into others and wild populations. It's not like having a dog

May be true in secluded areas where you have a small population of Amm or native bees and perhaps there is a case in these locations to promote this through better awareness as John G has done in N Ireland or for conservation purpose.

Everywhere else in the UK you will have to do with multiple gene pools and I think there is real benefit in this to achieve better bees that meet your needs as is done with other livestock breeding programmes.

 

[jeff33]

So anyway, back to the original post, who is the breeder who supplies them with £30 queens which they turn into £300 nucs?

 

[Robinredcar]

Sorry that’s rubbish. There’s no law in this country to protect Amm and there shouldn’t be either.
Nobody has a crack at carnica by the way. Are all these Carnies sold to hobbyists pure?

There should be a law to stop imports and protect our native stocks, bees are not humans with silly leftist opinions. They open mate so anything in the area directly effects their genes.
I'm against any imports, maby not so much AMM from close by, I don't care what if they are buckfast mongrels, carnica, linguista, a mix of any of them they should all be banned and people breed from stocks they have that way wild bees stand half a chance. AMM is still by far the dominant subspecies in this land and for good reason, all these imports just hinder their survival its not only selfish to use foreign genes but irresponsible to. Take a look at our native Red squirrel, cray fish or another species humans have cooked up with their arrogance and imports.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Goodness, a beekeeping gammon

 

[Robinredcar]

No! All Apis Mellifera had a common ancestor. Take into account, the habitation of Doggerland and all the surrounding areas from Germany to Ireland and as far south as North Africa. All a habitat of Apis Mellifera Mellifera.
Of the Buckfasts that I have, one is an F4 and of good temperament, mine last between 3 to 4 years, so there is no real difficulty of surviving my locale. I've had British bred as well as Northern Europe and South America, all survive,
I have mongrels as well as AMM, they are all good and this year I am trialling the Jolanta queens. While I somewhat respect BIBBA, I take what they say about best suited with a pinch of salt, my experience is rather different.
The argument regarding banning imports, would put a high number of amateur beekeepers at a disadvantage all down to supply and demand. If there is demand on a yearly basis for early queens, then the sellers have to be able to supply that demand, that is the way it is driven. Cut the supply and our AMM breeders would not be able to keep up with the demand, we have a short season and not many breeders will have the capacity to rear early queens, they could supply last year's queens if they had the resources to ramp up their business model. But i remember at one time the Cornish black bee had a 2 year waiting list. In some respects the BDI insurance holds us back in rearing surplus queens for ourselves, if you have over the number of hives you have insured for, you are no longer covered.
To finish if we all bred some queens to overwinter, then there would be less demand, but this is something I cannot see happening in the near future, even if it is done as a cooperative. So what stops some of them is the temperament of their bees.

You've just made my point, they all had a common ancestry yet they all developed into separate sub species there is a good reason for this?
Your buckfast would not likley survive in the wild without human intervention, therfore the genese its drones are spreading is hindering any chance wild bees have.
I totally agree that everyone should breed more queens to make up for losses before they even happen but I think people don't because it's to easy to buy a foreign queen that unlike your experience most do not report have good tempremant past f2 so they go buy in another foreign queen and continue the cycle.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Your buckfast would not likley survive in the wild without human intervention

proof of this?
Or even proof that others do without intervention?

 

[Robinredcar]

Goodness, a beekeeping gammon

May be true in secluded areas where you have a small population of Amm or native bees and perhaps there is a case in these locations to promote this through better awareness as John G has done in N Ireland or for conservation purpose.

Everywhere else in the UK you will have to do with multiple gene pools and I think there is real benefit in this to achieve better bees that meet your needs as is done with other livestock breeding programmes.

I'd have to look but the average dna genetics show that amm is dominant in the uk and by a large number.
You can't breed bees like most other live stock though, your stocks and those around you directly effect each other hence why we have such a mix and match.
It dosnt seem to be the case, you keep your buckfast or carnica or linguistica and breed from them without importing more exotic genes and they loose their vigour quickly?

 

[Robinredcar]

proof of this?
Or even proof that others do without intervention?

Show me a wild living buckfast colony that's over 4 years old int the uk.