Gwenyn Gruffydd Welsh black bees

[Robinredcar]

Lol since when do buckfasts have to be a specific colour.

Since brother Adam started mixing subspecies to create a stable pheno type and called it the buckfast bee? Or if your referring to the modern beekeepers at buckfast abby you'd be correct in saying they don't breed foreign subspecies these days, they breed local bees from what they already have and seem to realise that using exotic friends genes is not a good idea?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you aware you can get dark/black Buckfasts maybe you have some of those

If you’re a bee whisperer nothing chases you and you get buckets of honey even if it rains all year.
I have black bees. Some of them chase me. Maybe because I’m not Welsh?

 

[Ian123]

Since brother Adam started mixing subspecies to create a stable pheno type and called it the buckfast bee? Or if your referring to the modern beekeepers at buckfast abby you'd be correct in saying they don't breed foreign subspecies these days, they breed local bees from what they already have and seem to realise that using exotic friends genes is not a good idea?

Errrr no brother Adam also had dark buckfasts. Buckfast refers to a line bred bee and and there are many shades/colours in different lines, the breeding continues in many countries through excellent recognised breeders. Few have any match in this country! As to the abbey they rather went to pot

 

[Erichalfbee]

Lol since when do buckfasts have to be a specific colour.

Yes some of mine are dark

 

[jeff33]

So where did the genetics come from? British legustica?

Look at the royal family...this is what happens when you rely on a small gene pool!

 

[Robinredcar]

Errrr no brother Adam also had dark buckfasts. Buckfast refers to a line bred bee and and there are many shades/colours in different lines, the breeding continues in many countries through excellent recognised breeders. Few have any match in this country! As to the abbey they rather went to pot

Errrrrrr brother Adam was trying to create a stable pheno type, he had many failures along the way resulting in many different colours and traits that come with mixing subspecies. Would still love to see these black buckfasts you talk about though?
No quite the opposite, the people at buckfast abby (coincidentally what the buckfast bees are named after yet they don't come from there anymore funny eh?!) Realise that it's a bad idea trying to reproduce the buckfast bees

 

[Ian123]

Look at the royal family...this is what happens when you rely on a small gene pool!

Lol I have an aunt from a Welsh valley so I can attest to the limited genetics theory!

 

[Robinredcar]

Look at the royal family...this is what happens when you rely on a small gene pool!

True enough with the royalys, but honeybees survived and evolved as amm in the uk for more than a melenia without other subspecies imported so I don't think we need to add to the gene pool really.

 

[Anduril]

Yea but he keeps afew buckfast colonys, hopefully not close enough to cock up the Welsh black mating he buys in. I love watching his videos on YouTube but i hate that he uses and sells buckfast.

I know a Cardiff Professor, who calls the British AMM's exotic, well they did swarm over here after the ice age from Africa.
What was the original Buckfast?
After the Isle of Wight disease, the AMM's crossed with Italians survived.

 

[jeff33]

we always go around in circles with this discussion. These milenia during which Amm survived and evolved were hundred of years ago. Since then Europe and British isles have been flooded by other sub-species to the point that pure Amms are a minority and probably impossible to raise pure in the Uk (apart from 1 or 2 examples). Unless someone can provide DNA or morphometric evidence to back-up their claims, I think most of what is bred as so called native bees are mongrels.

 

[Robinredcar]

Yes some of mine are dark

Maby they are the dark buckfast that are chasing you around

 

[Robinredcar]

I know a Cardiff Professor, who calls the British AMM's exotic, well they did swarm over here after the ice age from Africa.
What was the original Buckfast?
After the Isle of Wight disease, the AMM's crossed with Italians survived.

They where not amm then though, they evolved hear to amm after melenia of natural selection to survive our climate.
No it seems that was propaganda most likley from the people selling foreign bees lol. There's still plus 99% pure amm bees hear in the uk and Ireland.
I dont know it definatly had legustica though.

 

[Ian123]

Errrrrrr brother Adam was trying to create a stable pheno type, he had many failures along the way resulting in many different colours and traits that come with mixing subspecies. Would still love to see these black buckfasts you talk about though?
No quite the opposite, the people at buckfast abby (coincidentally what the buckfast bees are named after yet they don't come from there anymore funny eh?!) Realise that it's a bad idea trying to reproduce the buckfast bees

Yes he was breeding a stable type but your missing the point there are many different lines to that type and many varying colours/shades, I really don’t understand why people are so hung up on colour or even the name buckfast gets some twitching, the fact they are no longer reared there is irrelevant. Probably more to the point there was none there with the required skills or experience to continue.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maby they are the dark buckfast that are chasing you around

They could be but I know my Buckies are orange. Maybe my black bees are indeed not black.

 

[Anduril]

They where not amm then though, they evolved hear to amm after melenia of natural selection to survive our climate.
No it seems that was propaganda most likley from the people selling foreign bees lol. There's still plus 99% pure amm bees hear in the uk and Ireland.
I dont know it definatly had legustica though.

It has been hypothesised that Apis Mellifera came from Asia and moved to Europe and Africa, but for present day Apis Mellifera originating from Africa after the ice age, no conspiracy theories, just science and all the Apis Mellifera species are closely linked genetically.
After the Isle of Wight disease, there was a great influx of Dutch AMM's to make up the numbers. Not propaganda, just the old story of supply and demand.

 

[Robinredcar]

Yes he was breeding a stable type but your missing the point there are many different lines to that type and many varying colours/shades, I really don’t understand why people are so hung up on colour or even the name buckfast gets some twitching, the fact they are no longer reared there is irrelevant. Probably more to the point there was none there with the required skills or experience to continue.

Because that was the point of the pheno type, it never breeds true obviously because its just a mix of subspecies so I don't get why people even call them buckfasts, they are not bred there, they are not what the creator sought in the pheno type.
No I'd say its because you can't reliably breed from 'buckfast' and create the same thing generation after generation that's why it's silly and that's why buckfast abby dosnt do it anymore, just a load of people using the name buck fast to sell bees.
Should really call them what ever crosses they are

 

[Robinredcar]

They could be but I know my Buckies are orange. Maybe my black bees are indeed not black.

Maby so, dna test would be a good answer for you..... it won't say buckfast on any of them though as its not a species

 

[Robinredcar]

It has been hypothesised that Apis Mellifera came from Asia and moved to Europe and Africa, but for present day Apis Mellifera originating from Africa after the ice age, no conspiracy theories, just science and all the Apis Mellifera species are closely linked genetically.
After the Isle of Wight disease, there was a great influx of Dutch AMM's to make up the numbers. Not propaganda, just the old story of supply and demand.

I agree, I don't know about Asia but read all the AM came from Africa originally.
That's kind of my point though, the AMM has evolved to live hear from a common ancestor of say the AML or AMC, they all evolved their diffrenet traits to best suit their environments.
That's why I think we should stop all imports of honey bees it's detrimental to all that evolution.
Talking of evolution if we did stop imports eventually all the bees hear would be alot more AMM if not 100% eventually as its the best suited to our climate.

 

[jeff33]

Should really call them what ever crosses they are

Amm ?
I have seen Black Mountain sells some dark bucky lines which I hav enever heard before.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maby so, dna test would be a good answer for you..... it won't say buckfast on any of them though as its not a species

Buckfast is Apis Mellifera, no?