Giving up beekeeping

[Ben90]

Surely they are not actually new starters unles they have acquired bees?

What about people who go under a mentor's wing for a year or so before acquiring their own? You could certainly say they have beekeeping experience even if they don't have their own bees yet.

But I can't understand why the BBKA and it's Associations place such an emphasis on classroom based teaching for what is sureluy such a practical hobby.

I think it depends on an individual's learning style. I was able to pick up most of the basics from books and lectures before I'd ever even touched bees. The first time I ever handled bees was when I got my first nuc and I was transferring the bees to the hive, completely unsupervised. Some people can soak up information and then apply it in the real world without any problems, some people can't. The academic style shouldn't be the only style offered, though.

There's also the fact that in modern times, not everyone can get, say, every wednesday evening off to go to the branch apiary for a practical. I'm lucky enough to have an understanding boss who lets me swap shifts for bee related stuff.

Out of the number of starters in the winter session, though, I was one of the only three who started going to the hands on sessions at the branch apiary, though they started about a month after I actually got bees. There were about 15 or 16 in the winter lectures. There did seem to be a couple of people there in winter who became a bit daunted by how much there is to take in, though.

 

[Skyhook]

Any idea what the beginners attrition rate is?

Cazza

Eventually, 100%.


.

 

[pargyle]

I do understand why a lot of new or prospective beekeepers give up. I found the beginners course very helpful but it was geared to 'national hives' beekeeping ~ fortunately for me with an instructor and other members of the association who were willing to talk to me about my cheapskate, off the wall, plans. But ... some of the comments I got back from other people on the course were that the cost of entry into beekeeping (on a conventional beekeeping basis) was high. One person, of diminuitive stature, couldn't see herself lifting 14x12 boxes (empty let alone full !) and there were a couple who found the whole theory process very challenging.

Let's face it, beekeeping can become quite complicated and expensive and if you have come into it with little prior knowledge there are a few shocks in waiting. I did over a year's research before I got near the basic beekeeping course and I read most of the standard texts - but even a lot of these are difficult to digest as they assume a level of knowledge that is sometimes not there.

Perhaps, before potential beeks are signed up for a course, they should be guided into reading a more basic text like the Haynes Manual ... particularly the earlier chapters ... and then be treated to a 'taster session' before the course (for real) commences. A forewarning of what was in store may be enough to let people decide whether they REALLY want to keep bees or just help pollinators - and save them the cost of the course and the feeling of having failed (both them and the instructor, I would imagine).

 

[Ben90]

But ... some of the comments I got back from other people on the course were that the cost of entry into beekeeping (on a conventional beekeeping basis) was high.

Oh yes, the cost is definitely very high. I can see why people run a mile when they realise what the cost of the hobby is.

For me, though, the biggest barrier was where I could keep the bees. I've managed to get a small setup in my back yard (after persistently trying to convince my family to allow me to since I was something like 16 years old), but I'm hoping to expand next year, and simply can't keep more hives in my back yard. I might be able to get a couple at my local branch apiary which is in walking distance for me - but I simply can't drive for medical reasons. I might be able to in a couple of years time, but I can't keep my bees anywhere past a certain distance from home. I'm physically healthy and fit apart from the thing that prevents me from driving, so I can carry full supers and such for a fair distance, but past a mile or so and we're pushing it.

 

[itma]

... I'm physically healthy and fit apart from the thing that prevents me from driving, so I can carry full supers and such for a fair distance, but past a mile or so and we're pushing it.

Ben, "pushing it" might be a good idea!
I'm thinking of some sort of barrow. You might even adapt/customise an old pram, pushchair or buggy. It'll be worthwhile the very first time you use it!

 

[alanf]

It's called "churn" in commercial circles. Every organisation that sets out to enrol members (customers, subscribers, whatever) expects a high percentage to have a look, maybe try a little and then drift off to something else that takes their fancy. There's a need for any organisation to cater for a turnover of active members, so the beginners courses are run every year. After a surge of concern about bees in the past 10 or so years, the numbers are down. Increased numbers giving up is probably just because more started, the percentage who try beekeeping and find out it's not for them may be much as it always was,

I came to the hobby after 20 years of Coaching in Sport, and have been surprised at the lack of structure and support for newcomers...

But I can't understand why the BBKA and it's Associations place such an emphasis on classroom based teaching for what is surely such a practical hobby.

Competitive sport is completely different, everybody has to agree the same rules, turn up at the same time with the same equipment and so on. Beekeeping is part livestock smallholding, part craft, part diy science, part home study and lots of other things extending to whatever you want to get out of it. Is there any support in chicken keeping? Structure in gardening? Why would there be any in beekeeping? Rules and competition is peripheral, those who are seriously into "showing" are a small fraction.

"BBKA and it's associations" is an odd way to put it. Beekeeping associations started independently in the late 1800s and expanded early 20th century. They're voluntary organisations to give a bit of mutual help locally and social interaction. There's an impression from the outside, perhaps encouraged by "the BBKA", that it "runs beekeeping", but it's just an association of independent organisations. Not all associations, even in England, are affiliated to BBKA. Several of those who are affiliated would prefer the BBKA to do a little less; see corporate sponsorship and Bayer for recent examples of when fund raising starts to dominate the agenda,

 

[domino]

I'm in my 2nd season now and I think the fallout rate is pretty high, I'd put that down to a few things. The BBKA course does seem to have a lot of filler in it. The cost of starting is pretty high and only gets higher for the first few seasons.

I did try and do one of the BBKA modules, but frankly I'd rather spend the time with my bees. Maybe I'm getting lazy in my old age.

 

[pargyle]

Oh yes, the cost is definitely very high. I can see why people run a mile when they realise what the cost of the hobby is.

I'm physically healthy and fit apart from the thing that prevents me from driving, so I can carry full supers and such for a fair distance, but past a mile or so and we're pushing it.

I'm old but pretty fit ... carrying a full super a mile would kill me ! You are

I would beg, borrow or steal a trolley of some sort ... there's bound to be a supermarket trolley somewhere in a ditch near you that you could convert !

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I'm in my 2nd season now and I think the fallout rate is pretty high, I'd put that down to a few things. The BBKA course does seem to have a lot of filler in it. The cost of starting is pretty high and only gets higher for the first few seasons.

I did try and do one of the BBKA modules, but frankly I'd rather spend the time with my bees. Maybe I'm getting lazy in my old age.

In my opinion many of the examined modules are artificially stuffed with filler be it work related or pseudo academic courses. Beekeeping modules are no doubt in the company of many many others.

 

[beekim]

Perhaps i was lucky in my course £50 for a six weekend course lots of practical and vists to apiarys my local branch has a meeting once a month some very good speakers and all the beekeepers are very helpful not many hobbies are cheap and this is one i can enjoy with my husband.

 

[Ben90]

Ben, "pushing it" might be a good idea!
I'm thinking of some sort of barrow. You might even adapt/customise an old pram, pushchair or buggy. It'll be worthwhile the very first time you use it!

You know, I'd never thought of getting a wheelbarrow or anything like that. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[meidel]

've managed to get a small setup in my back yard (after persistently trying to convince my family to allow me to since I was something like 16 years old),

Hi Ben

This made me smile as I waited a number of decades before getting my own dog, never mind bees!

Mei

 

[alanf]

You know, I'd never thought of getting a wheelbarrow or anything like that.

Wheelbarrows are good, sack barrows work quite well for stacks of boxes, you can strap to the uprights.

 

[user 6228]

Forget doing the a long course theory first. Beginners on the very first day should handle a frame of bees. The bees will either capture or repel the prospective bee keeper. This would rely on having a confident calm teacher and some relaxed bees.
It worked here, I got dragged along to a "One Day 'Taster' Course for People Considering Beekeeping" with the now Beekeeper.
The Bee keeper bit is about handling bees, the sooner you see someone doing it and start doing it your self the better grip the bees will have on you.

 

[alldigging]

Forget doing the a long course theory first. Beginners on the very first day should handle a frame of bees.

My first bee experience was at a hands on session where frames of bees were handed round. It was amazing!

 

[madasafish]

My first bee experience was at a hands on session where frames of bees were handed round. It was amazing!

+1


After that I was hooked. The Beekeeper had bare hands. I thought : what a good idea.. and tried it. Never looked back since.

 

[pargyle]

Forget doing the a long course theory first. Beginners on the very first day should handle a frame of bees. The bees will either capture or repel the prospective bee keeper. This would rely on having a confident calm teacher and some relaxed bees.
It worked here, I got dragged along to a "One Day 'Taster' Course for People Considering Beekeeping" with the now Beekeeper.
The Bee keeper bit is about handling bees, the sooner you see someone doing it and start doing it your self the better grip the bees will have on you.

Yep ... that's exactly how it should be !!

 

[sipa]

To be perfectly honest I'm not surprised so many beginners do't stay with the hobby.

First, the attitude of many established "old hands" at association meetings leaves a lot to be desired.
Newcomers are not embraced, or taken into the fold. Old friends huddle together and newcomers are left to their own devices.
Acronyms are used in profusion, AFB, EFB, BIAS etc, this totally confuses the newcomer, is this done to make them feel inadequate ?

Secondly, I think a Basic training course should be mandatory, before you are allowed to keep bees. This would weed out the "tyre kickers" and give the newcomer some confidence to engage more fully in association meetings.

Generally people are shy, and lack confidence when unsure of their subject for fear of appearing foolish in front of their peers.

 

[pargyle]

To be perfectly honest I'm not surprised so many beginners do't stay with the hobby.

First, the attitude of many established "old hands" at association meetings leaves a lot to be desired.
Newcomers are not embraced, or taken into the fold. Old friends huddle together and newcomers are left to their own devices.
Acronyms are used in profusion, AFB, EFB, BIAS etc, this totally confuses the newcomer, is this done to make them feel inadequate ?

Secondly, I think a Basic training course should be mandatory, before you are allowed to keep bees. This would weed out the "tyre kickers" and give the newcomer some confidence to engage more fully in association meetings.

Generally people are shy, and lack confidence when unsure of their subject for fear of appearing foolish in front of their peers.

I think it depends on the association ... mine is brilliant - very welcoming and inclusive and lots to join in with.

However, I was berated by a beekeeper on a stand at the RHS Wisley (whilst I was still in 'research' mode) when I mentioned, in the course of my enquiry, that I was thinking of a TBH and low intereference - really got the third degree and was told 'You will be a menace to other beekeepers in the area'. He was so awful I got a real complex for a time about 'coming out' about my proposed beekeeping ... fortunately, I'm not big on the shy and retiring front and I got over it pretty quickly - but there ARE a few out there that don't do newbies a lot of favours.

From the outside looking in to beekeeping it does seem a bit like a black art and it can be very confusing for a beginner - but I think that it's like that with a lot of hobbies - they have their own languages and there's a lot to learn - you just have to grasp the nettle and ask if you don't understand or really get to grips with Google !! (It was a lot more difficult before the internet & Youtube !! - oh ... and forums like this one ...)

I also think that some people really want to be spoon fed ... we've seen it so many times on this forum when newbies have, eventually, had to be told to 'hit the books' ... I think, to some extent, that there is a culture that some people believe education (generally) should be delivered to them ... rather than being something that challenges or confirms knowledge you have gained under your own steam. (But then again, I am OLD and went to a school that made you think for yourself !!)

 

[clv101]

First, the attitude of many established "old hands" at association meetings leaves a lot to be desired.
Newcomers are not embraced, or taken into the fold. Old friends huddle together and newcomers are left to their own devices.
Acronyms are used in profusion, AFB, EFB, BIAS etc, this totally confuses the newcomer, is this done to make them feel inadequate ?

This might be your experience, but it hasn't been mine. The "old hands" at my association have been brilliant, very inclusive, helpful and welcoming to new members including myself last year.