Gas vap worth it ?

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Lol.....,I intend to upgrade the little chefs torch to a rothenberger plumbers 1 though. You could do hundreds of hives

Be careful with that, from memory the rothenberger flame temp is about twice the melting temp of copper.
 
Lol.....,I intend to upgrade the little chefs torch to a rothenberger plumbers 1 though. You could do hundreds of hives

This is my set up..it is a mix of butane/propane and works a treat with my modified adapter to take the vap..it took me a few trial runs to get it right but I am there now..not happy with the regulator if it has one but I will get by aslong as I keep the angle of the gas bottle correct.
 

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Cheers for all your replies and ideas folks - I think I'll give it a go along with some proper PPE
 
Cheers for all your replies and ideas folks - I think I'll give it a go along with some proper PPE
Mind get a mask rated for organic vapors and acid gases, not a B&Q decorators special.

This 3M one comes with the correct filters:

3M™ 4277 (FFABE1P3 R D) provides protection against
organic vapours (good warning properties and b.pt. > 65°C),
inorganic and acid gases up to 10 x TLV or 1000 ppm,
whichever is lower and 50 x TLV for particulates.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-4277-Maintenance-Free-FFABE1P3/dp/B008BHHZUM
 
Cheers for all your replies and ideas folks - I think I'll give it a go along with some proper PPE

The wiser souls on here, who may be using generic Oxalic acid by sublimation, appear to be keeping a fairly low profile. ... probably not a good idea to broadcast on a Public forum (where any posts can be viewed by anyone) that one is intent on contravening the VMD Regulations.

The fine for administering unauthorised treatments is £5000. If you don't keep records of any medicines administered that's an offence as well.

The inspection of bee colonies is carried out by the National Bee Unit, who utilise Beebase, which is jointly owned by APHA (Animal and Plant Heath Authoriy) who are an executive agency sponsored by DEFRA .. who,surprise surprise, have another executive agency ... the VMD.

So.. if you belong to a BBKA affiliated Association you are automatically entered in Beebase so big brother could be watching you ...

Bee inspectors have a duty to report back any instances where the VMD regulations have been violated ... in fact there is a facility on line where anyone suspected of contravening the regs can be reported ..indeed Bee Inspectors may take samples from your hives for analysis and any samples that show quantities of unauthorised medicines may generate an investigation.

Make sure you don't have any enemies ... and hope you stay lucky !
 
Purely from a clinical perspective I see a number of issues using unlicensed OA in the gasvap.

The first is that it lacks sugar. My perception is that the presence of sugar in the licensed formulation is deemed an inconvenience and a contaminant. But I suspect that the presence of sugar and the formation of HMF on heating may actually be intended therapeutically as a miticide:

"In a study by Milani (2001), the calculated LDso ofmites ranged from 0.68 to 1.90 pg OA/cmz.
Addition of glucose or glycerol to the OA was shown to increase mortality of mites, this was likely
being caused by the formation of small droplets (increased hygroscopicity). The effect appeared to be
higher against mites collected from adult bees compared to mites collected from brood.

In regard to the other ingredients in the formulation, the addition of glucose in combination with
glycerol was developed in order to increase the effectiveness."

From: https://tinyurl.com/y4sm48nw

I also suspect that the licensed product being a combination product is less likely to result in resistance in the longer term as the presence of sugar is known to increase the efficacy of OA and combination therapies are less prone to resistance.

There is also the question of whether a convenient quick blast of OA via the gasvap is as effective and safe as the licensed product and its recommended method of administration. As far as I can see there have been no statistically significant studies performed to prove the safety or efficacy of the gasvap method.

The problem as I see it is that because it is convenient and cheap anecdotal use is heavily biased and colony losses may not be being correctly attributed to this method of treatment.

Just food for thought.
 
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Is not the info you refer to in regard to oxalic trickle and sugar content?. And as to resistance oxalic has a physical affect on the mites body so not at all like resistance to a medicine. Just my thoughts....Ian
 
Agreed which is why I was very careful to say suspect.

This is the thing though and I'm just chewing the cud loudly here (because I'm slammed at don't have the time at the mo to research in depth). The licensed product has two licensed means of application. I can't imagine that vaporisation would have been licensed without some testing done to demonstrate safety and enhanced efficacy against plain OA. HMF is well known for its insecticidal side effects on bees. OA is also well known for its insecticidal side effects on bees. The difference between apicide and miticide? I imagine it's just a matter of dose/exposure.
 
So this is illegal?
E
 

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The wiser souls on here, who may be using generic Oxalic acid by sublimation, appear to be keeping a fairly low profile. ... probably not a good idea to broadcast on a Public forum (where any posts can be viewed by anyone) that one is intent on contravening the VMD Regulations.

The fine for administering unauthorised treatments is £5000. If you don't keep records of any medicines administered that's an offence as well.

The inspection of bee colonies is carried out by the National Bee Unit, who utilise Beebase, which is jointly owned by APHA (Animal and Plant Heath Authoriy) who are an executive agency sponsored by DEFRA .. who,surprise surprise, have another executive agency ... the VMD.

So.. if you belong to a BBKA affiliated Association you are automatically entered in Beebase so big brother could be watching you ...

Bee inspectors have a duty to report back any instances where the VMD regulations have been violated ... in fact there is a facility on line where anyone suspected of contravening the regs can be reported ..indeed Bee Inspectors may take samples from your hives for analysis and any samples that show quantities of unauthorised medicines may generate an investigation.

Make sure you don't have any enemies ... and hope you stay lucky !


Duly noted Pargyle thanks
So if Big Brother does give a hoot, I shall of course only be using Apibioxal :rules:
 
Yes. It's not Apibioxal.

Yes
Unless you’re “not treating” with it😉
:iagree: and I think Simon the beekeeper has stopped selling them. The VMD apparently have been in contact with a number of suppliers of unlicensed veterinary medicines that were being openly marketed in the UK making it plain that they are infringing the regs just offering products for sale ... I don't know whether this included OA being sold by beekeeping suppliers. However... if I were marketing apibioxal about the first thing I would do is find a way to stymie the competition... I would not suggest that they would but the only competition they have is generic OA ....
 
The morality of the situation imho is that in this case the vmd are doing the work of the dark side and by association the nbu, I think they should stand their ground and make the vmd do their own foot soldier work, it devalues the relationship aspect of the inspectors having to be generic oxalic police.
 
Duly noted Pargyle thanks
So if Big Brother does give a hoot, I shall of course only be using Apibioxal :rules:
At the very least, keep a packet of Apibioxal in your supplies box, and the Oxalic Acid you keep for cleaning timber and other household uses in your garage ;)
 

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