Funny Honey

[CallumB]

Got a bit of an issue with my honey this year. It looks like it's shrunk in the jars and looks unappetizing (not gonna sell very well).
Can it just warm the jars in the oven?
This has happened to every single jar!
Thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It’s called frosting.
If it’s not fermenting you can just melt it at 40 degrees and sell as runny honey.
A water bath is ideal for jars like this. Are they all labelled?

 

[enrico]

Likely to have high brassica nectar such as OSR. it happens. 40 degrees doesn't seem to liquify mine but it does turn it soft set for a while!
E

 

[CallumB]

It's not fermenting. But is rock hard not quite as hard as rapeseed honey. I'm pretty sure there is no rapeseed in it as the supers were added 2 weeks after it had finished so I don't really know what it comprises of. Would be interesting to get it tested somehow!? I don't know where I'd go to get that done. Any suggestions?
Anyway I'll try warming it up and see.
Thanks.

 

[beeno]

You may have had OSR in the brood box which the bees have moved up into the supers.

 

[Curly green finger's]

It's not fermenting. But is rock hard not quite as hard as rapeseed honey. I'm pretty sure there is no rapeseed in it as the supers were added 2 weeks after it had finished so I don't really know what it comprises of. Would be interesting to get it tested somehow!? I don't know where I'd go to get that done. Any suggestions?
Anyway I'll try warming it up and see.
Thanks.

Im sure theres some on here that could taste test it for you. It's a very distinctive taste set osr honey.
It looks very much like osr honey to me.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Likely to have high brassica nectar such as OSR. it happens. 40 degrees doesn't seem to liquify mine but it does turn it soft set for a while!
E

Ah yes. Forgot about OSR
Forever grateful that there’s none anywhere near here.

 

[Firefly]

Forgive me for reviving this. Is there a definitive answer to what causes frosting? I find the assertion that it is "bubbles in the honey" a bit implausible. Even OSR honey does not set that fast.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Forgive me for reviving this. Is there a definitive answer to what causes frosting? I find the assertion that it is "bubbles in the honey" a bit implausible.

You're right, it is a bit of a daft assertion. When the honey sets/gets hard it tends to contract away from the walls of the jar - the frosting is the areas where there is a slight 'gap'

 

[Firefly]

You're right, it is a bit of a daft assertion. When the honey sets/gets hard it tends to contract away from the walls of the jar - the frosting is the areas where there is a slight 'gap'

That's interesting and sounds more logical - but how do you "know"? What's the source and provenance of the information, other than your good self?

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's interesting and sounds more logical - but how do you "know"? What's the source and provenance of the information, other than your good self?

You could start here Frosting in honey - The Apiarist
Then Google and you’ll find lots of similar information

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's interesting and sounds more logical - but how do you "know"? What's the source and provenance of the information, other than your good self?

Some through observation, but mostly from the writings of people much 'gooder' than myself (as Dani has pointed out)

 

[Firefly]

You could start here Frosting in honey - The Apiarist
Then Google and you’ll find lots of similar information

Thanks; I read David before I posted and I normally regard everything he says as canonical. But it was the idea of "trapped bubbles" that made me wonder, and doubt. He does not cite any investigation or evidence, which is quite unusual, for him. I had an inexpert search around the interweb echo chamber, but again, could not find anything other than unsupported assertion, also known as folk-lore. So I thought folks on here might have a more scientifically-based source to reassure me

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks; I read David before I posted and I normally regard everything he says as canonical. But it was the idea of "trapped bubbles" that made me wonder, and doubt. He does not cite any investigation or evidence, which is quite unusual, for him. I had an inexpert search around the interweb echo chamber, but again, could not find anything other than unsupported assertion, also known as folk-lore. So I thought folks on here might have a more scientifically-based source to reassure me

If you pour your soft set into warm jars you can largely avoid it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you pour your soft set into warm jars you can largely avoid it.

I don't see it with softset that often - it's usually with naturally crystalized honey

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't see it with softset that often - it's usually with naturally crystalized honey

I never have any of that except in buckets and never notice to be honest

 

[Firefly]

In my experience, it's most common in OSR honey. My bottling process always includes heating the jars (then waiting for them to be cool enough to pick up ). I always settle (the honey) for 2 days before bottling. It does not worry me, but it's often a talking point with customers, and I could understand it putting off self-service customers

Even the idea of 'bubbles' is a bit ambiguous: could mean small air bubbles that fail to rise during settling or post-bottling; could mean dissolved gas that comes out of solution during crystalisation; could mean air space between the glass and the jar that appears if/when (some?) honey contracts, as JBM suggests. I could speculate about other causes - such as random variation in the shape or size of crystals

I just wonder if anyone, anywhere, has ever really looked at the process involved - something approximating to a scientific investigation - or just speculated and/or passed on the speculation of others in an endless chain of folk-lore - like so much beekeeping 'knowledge'

 

[Prof]

Could it be due to local moisture and peroxide from the glucose oxidase? No supporting evidence though.

 

[Amari]

I have experienced temporary frosting this morning.
I went to take a couple of soft-set honey from my shed and was disturbed to see that all the jars were all frosted evenly for about a cm below the lid - not patchy as the photos above. [this batch was a blend of OSR and summer honey stored in buckets then, a month ago, warmed to 35C for two days then stirred and run into warmed jars] [Temp. in shed last night likely to be similar to nearby cold greenhouse: 0.2C]

I left the jars in a warm kitchen for two hours and was gratified to find the frosting has disappeared (the two jars on the right)
The jars in the shed were still frosted (two jars on the left).

Shirley there must be a science boffin on the forum who could explain this!

 

[Firefly]

I have experienced temporary frosting this morning.
I went to take a couple of soft-set honey from my shed and was disturbed to see that all the jars were all frosted evenly for about a cm below the lid - not patchy as the photos above. [this batch was a blend of OSR and summer honey stored in buckets then, a month ago, warmed to 35C for two days then stirred and run into warmed jars] [Temp. in shed last night likely to be similar to nearby cold greenhouse: 0.2C]

I left the jars in a warm kitchen for two hours and was gratified to find the frosting has disappeared (the two jars on the right)
The jars in the shed were still frosted (two jars on the left).

Shirley there must be a science boffin on the forum who could explain this!