Frame conversion kit

[Mcleod2860]

I think after the my post for a langstroth nuc didn't get an reply that there maybe aren't that many out there so.....

Has anyone used a frame conversion kit and how easy is it?

And how long do they last ?

Cheers conor

 

[tonybloke]

I think after the my post for a langstroth nuc didn't get an reply that there maybe aren't that many out there so.....

Has anyone used a frame conversion kit and how easy is it?

And how long do they last ?

Cheers conor

don't bee in to much of a hurry! there are some suppliers who will offer Nuc's on Langstroth frames.
patience!!

 

[oliver90owner]

The frame conversion kits are simply to be used while your bees transfer to the langstroth frames you supply for them - so a means of fitting smaller frames into a bigger box. Never used one; bound to be fiddly at the start; need to practise before doing the job; remove bees from comb fit extensions and replace. Likely only five to do, anyway. Either choose a warm day, or be quick, to prevent brood chilling.

I would maybe make my own, but more likely to drop in a couple of 47mm thick timber, the width of the nuc, on which to lodge the frames temporarily.

The kits have two purposes. To hold the frames in position and to reduce extra comb being built by the bees and bracing them securely to the sides and each other (wasted work for your new nuc as well!).

Regards, RAB

 

[Queens59]

I can't remember why but I think it was when I bought a Lang. Nuc I asked a similar question - and the basic feeling was more bother than they were worth - change the bee-space so get wild comb/propolis linking to sides etc...but haven't tried them yet - as they were for this coming season.

 

[oliver90owner]

Queens,

Mcleod2860 is going the other way to you. Nuc on National frames to get them into the bigger box. You are simply making your bigger box smaller to take the same size frames as your main hives.

Regards, RAB

 

[Black Comb]

MBS supply a national to langstroth frame conversion kit but I've never used one.

You could simply wire (or cable tie) a langstroth top bar to each top bar of the nationals and place the frames into your langstroth hive, perhaps putting one or 2 langstroth frames (with foundation) adjacent, then dummy board. As the hive expands add more langstroth frames.

Whichever way you choose you will eventually have to gradually move the national frames to the edges when they are broodless and replace them with langstroths. As Rab says, downside is comb at the edges and a small amount underneath, perhaps filled with drones.

It is worth it if you want to run langstroths.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Why not buy package bee's to start your new hive,instead of a nuc.

 

[birchdale]

I made converters for Nat to bigger frames using Hoopers ides as a guide.

3 pieces of wood (2xsides and 1 bottom) to slot the Nat frame into. The 3 pieces of wood are put together before and the outside measurements = your frame size and internal measurements = the National. Drill 1 whole at the top of each side and slip in a cable tie into each.
The nat frame is short lugged and you will need to check before you make anything that the short lugged frame will fit into your hive (on a long lugged commercial it does just - but you have to be careful as they can slip down if you are rough when putting the frames back, best to move each frame individually as the Hoffman bits don't line up).

As other posters say move them the sides and out asap.

 

[Biddly]

I have used the frame conversion kits from MBS twice now and they have worked very well. It needs two people to actually fit the extensions but it is quick and easy, just lay the pieces out and make sure the plastic ties are the right way round before you start so it's all near to hand. I think they are about £6 for 5 frames. To establish the colonies in both of my Langstroth hives worked well.

 

[oliver90owner]

The long and the short of it all

birchdale,

Can you confirm or change your long and short lug frames. post is either erroneous or wrong - can't work out which!

I think I would still KISS - two pieces of 47mm timber into the box seems simple enough for me. A single hole to temporarly hold them in place might be a refinement, but there are other simple ways to keep them in place.

It is only temporary, after all!

Regards, RAB

(Just for the new beeks, of course.)

 

[Black Comb]

1. Nationals have long lugs (1.5") and langstroths short (0.75"). I've no experience of commercials but the books say short.

2. this is not really relevant here as it is the length of the top bars that matters. A national top bar is not long enough for a langstroth so a lang. top bar needs to be attached. The frame conversion kit does this. Side bars to stop burr comb would be useful. Bottom bar handy but less so.

Easiest way is to spend £6.50 and buy a kit. Decent instructions too. You should be able to re-use them many times if careful.

 

[Queens59]

I bought convertors for National, from my WBC to 14x12 National this year but after several comments have decided against using them.

 

[PaleoPerson]

I have used the frame conversion kits from MBS twice now and they have worked very well. It needs two people to actually fit the extensions but it is quick and easy, just lay the pieces out and make sure the plastic ties are the right way round before you start so it's all near to hand. I think they are about £6 for 5 frames. To establish the colonies in both of my Langstroth hives worked well.

I am currently using these on a Jumbo Langstroth Nuc with 14 x 12 frames inside. The reason for using them was:

A/ Wanted to convert at least one hive over to Langstroth.
B/ Did not have any Langstroth frames at the time a swarm needed collecting.
C/ Wanted to overwinter another colony in Poly for comparisons.
D/ I believe the best way of learning is by experience.

I take on board other peoples knowledge but everyones views are different for one (valid) reason or another. Therefore, where possible, I try it for myself and draw my own conclusions.

However, I do agree that an internal adapter (a wooden one was made once by another forum member) would be an easier way to go but would probably get stuck down by the bees making it more permanant than desired.

But as another option it may be a usefull tool in the toolbox.

 

[Black Comb]

Can you shook swarm a nuc?

 

[oliver90owner]

Can you shook swarm a nuc?

I would try to avoid that if possible. Doubtless some have done it successfully, at some time.

It would depend on the size and vigouur of the nuc - per eg. mine may be 'overflowing' with bees on a 6 frame jumbo National nuc, and that would be an acceptable instance, with no problems for the bees. 5 National deeps without that strength would be very much a different situation.

Regards, RAB

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

There is a danger of falling into the trap of thinking that the conversion kits are an easy way of transferring your bees between Langstroths and Nationals. While they don't seem difficult to use, manipulation will be fiddly to do on a regular basis and of course one way, ie BS -> Langstroth.

Important to remember their prime purpose (which they appear to be good at) is to give a method to get bees off BS frames into a Langstroth environment.

 

[PaleoPerson]

There is a danger of falling into the trap of thinking that the conversion kits are an easy way of transferring your bees between Langstroths and Nationals. While they don't seem difficult to use, manipulation will be fiddly to do on a regular basis and of course one way, ie BS -> Langstroth.

Important to remember their prime purpose (which they appear to be good at) is to give a method to get bees off BS frames into a Langstroth environment.

Sorry, but I disagree. Manipulation is not especially fiddly if the frames are setup correctly. They can also be used to get bees off Langstroth onto BS as well.

 

[drstitson]

"and of course one way, ie BS -> Langstroth"

that's surely true only in so far as you can't directly go LS->BS without cutting comb out of the frames and inserting into BS frames. However it would be possible to use the converters whilst say expanding a langstroth nuc and then gradually substituting frames until all in converters prior to transfer OR expand nuc and then split to give 1x national nuc and 1 x langstroth.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Sorry, but I disagree. Manipulation is not especially fiddly if the frames are setup correctly. They can also be used to get bees off Langstroth onto BS as well.

Its good that you feel confident with them, but I think "fiddly" potential can be assumed in the suggestion that there is a second pair of hands available. I did say that I didnt think they were particularly difficult to use.

"and of course one way, ie BS -> Langstroth"

that's surely true only in so far as you can't directly go LS->BS without cutting comb out of the frames and inserting into BS frames. However it would be possible to use the converters whilst say expanding a langstroth nuc and then gradually substituting frames until all in converters prior to transfer OR expand nuc and then split to give 1x national nuc and 1 x langstroth.

Sure - but it was my intention to emphasise that the converters are good for manipulating BS frames in a Langstroth environment, not the other way around.

 

[RoofTops]

You can just tie a National frame under a Langstroth top bar. The depth will be correct for the Langstroth within a few mm (there is no room or need for a bottom bar) but the gaps down the sides will be rapidly filled by the bees with comb - think 2 or 3 days - in the trials I did, and perversely they build their comb at right angles to the rest of the comb in the frame. This is why some sort of filler is needed and it is no secret that stock 2 * 1 PSE is the perfect size.