foundation on frames storage question

[joelsoo]

Hi All, new here, and also a new beekeeper(started this year June) hence prob have some silly questions so hope you guys don’t mind.

I have made up about 20 to 30 super frames earlier this season in prep for use during the honey flow but unfortunately as I only acquired my swarmed colonies ( I got 2) in mid june there isn’t really enough time for the bees to use/draw out the supers.

all the frames are in the supers stored in the shed, they are all undrawn. I had read that if foundations left open as such will turn stale and bees will not draw them out next year, what should I do? the last thing I want to do is to start dismantling the frames and removing foundations one by one and repack them back into the foundation packaging.

any tips what to do?

 

[Poly Hive]

Welcome,

Your foundation will be fine provided your storage stack is mouse proof.

In the event that you see white bloom on the wax which denotes it has gone dry, the cure is to warm it gently with a hairdryer which will remove the white bloom and turn it a pretty yellow and restore the bouquet.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

They will be fine.
I’ve just taken two brood boxes with waxed frames in up to the apiary where they are stored in a cold shed. Never any problem. I’ve found that making frames up after the one inspection you desperately needed them is a bit stressful
So I do them in winter and store them where they will he needed
Also if you have wooden hives treat yourself to some poly supers. Having even just your first super in poly gives the bees a head start

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They will be fine - don't waste time/money fiddling with a hairdryer - the bees won't give a jot about a bit of bloom

 

[joelsoo]

Ahh, thanks everyone for the quick response! lots to learn! i have got all wooden nationals now as they are very competitove being seconds quality from the honey shows (only £12.50).

regarding overwintering, and poly hives, i sorta prefer the natural product of timber instead of poly if i can avoid it.. i was thinking to make a simple timber secondary wall to sleeve over my national box just to give it the WBC insulation airgap. just wondering if this is something practical or just wasting my time? i don't want to wrap it completely with celotex as it potentially cannot breathe and may cause condensation?

with the stored frames, as they are in a national supers, i'd stack 2 supers (and a brood with some spare undrawn brood frames) on top of one another in a tall tower hive in the shed, and cut 2 sheets of 9mm ply @ 460x460 to encapsulate the top and bottom of the tower, just so its totally capped off to prevent the vermin from raiding the foundations within.

i'd put it on a shelf rather than on the floor so at least the critters will have to climb abit to get to them and chew through the ply before they can get in.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Wrapping the brood box in PIR will not cause condensation. You leave a half inch gap all round ( except the top). It doesn’t need to breathe. The bees coat the inside with propolis which is waterproof anyway.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wrapping the brood box in PIR will not cause condensation. You leave a half inch gap all round ( except the top). It doesn’t need to breathe. The bees coat the inside with propolis which is waterproof anyway.

too much nonsense out there bandied about by the ventilation brigade

 

[joelsoo]

OK if I am understanding this correctly we can celotex the side walls but leave half in gap b/t exterior wall and celotex. And roof put a celotex on the flat roof right on the outside. Gotcha.

 

[Swarm]

I think they will be perfectly fine as they are. It's up to you, if you have nothing better to do, but the bees don't need it.

If you are going to make a case, you will need to store your roof.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Errrr ....you make a box half an inch bigger all round than the hive. All made of 50mm PIR. Your extra slab of insulation can go on the crownboard under the cosy. You take the roof off

Oh, and you paint it.

 

[WalnutTreeBees]

You only really need the insulation under the roof, just cut a big square and lay it on top of the crown board.

Condensation will form on the coldest internal surface of the the hive, so if you insulate the roof it retain the warmth from the cluster and condensation will form on the hive walls that a furthest from the cluster. This is no bad thing as the bees can make use of this water instead of having to leave the hive. Be sure to also block off all holes apart from the entrance - you do not want air flowing through the hive as this will cool it down and allow more condensation to form.

 

[drex]

Yes, I have solid crown boards with no holes, but being in Balmy East Anglia, leave my OMF open all winter

 

[Natureboy44]

Errrr ....you make a box half an inch bigger all round than the hive. All made of 50mm PIR. Your extra slab of insulation can go on the crownboard under the cosy. You take the roof off

Oh, and you paint it.

Hi, I like that the hives look nice and well protected. What materials can you use to do this and what is PIR? I was thinking about insulating the hive and I saw this I am thinking of doing the same as it's my first and only hive to give them the best chance through winter. When you say take the roof off is that perm over winter? Another question I have 50mm of Kingspan sitting on the crownboard at the moment but there is about a 40mm gap between this and roof top is that alright or does the insulation have to be right up touching the inside of the roof?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

what is PIR?

Kingspan

When you say take the roof off is that perm over winter?

Yes, just weatherproof the PIR

I have 50mm of Kingspan sitting on the crownboard at the moment but there is about a 40mm gap between this and roof top is that alright

Not really - either cut the Kingspan to fit inside the 40mm sqare battens which is fixed around the inside of the roof and glue it in
or
remove the battens as they afford no real purpose apart from to keep the ventilation fanatics happy, then glue the kingspan in place - forget the vents in the roof, they're not needed and the insulation helps keep the hives cool in the summer

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi, I like that the hives look nice and well protected. What materials can you use to do this and what is PIR? I was thinking about insulating the hive and I saw this I am thinking of doing the same as it's my first and only hive to give them the best chance through winter. When you say take the roof off is that perm over winter? Another question I have 50mm of Kingspan sitting on the crownboard at the moment but there is about a 40mm gap between this and roof top is that alright or does the insulation have to be right up touching the inside of the roof?

Kingspan is PIR. Others are Recticel and Celotex
Yes you take the roof off all winter and put the cosy on top of your crownboard with its 50mm insulation already in place
My wooden roofs are the deep ones and I have taken the battens off inside and glued the 5Omm of insulation in permanently.
Your 40mm gap above your insulation is neither here nor there.
You have to paint the cosy or the weather will strip the aluminium foil off.
When you make the boxes up it’s useful to strengthen the joins with barbecue skewers and either take the seams inside with ally tape or apply some silicone sealer. The joins on the outside are covered with ally tape.

 

[Swarm]

OK as it is, the insulation is on the crown board. It's a bit like your attic.
A bit of insulation overhead is fine, you don't need to encase the hive.

 

[Poly Hive]

Despite the dismissive tone from some I have many times (I am a lot further north though) seen people complaining that the bees won't draw foundation. When given the hairdryer treatment as if by magic the problem vanishes.

Just a wee tip to remember.

PH

 

[rampino]

Hi Joel, I’ve got some drawn comb in supers plus some unused. Our club has been encouraging people to either use sulphur or put your supers in the freezer for a couple of days to kill off any wax moth larvae before storage. I went for the freezer method, then sealed the supers in plastic bags before storing them to ensure wax moths don’t get in.

 

[Beefriendly]

Worth remembering they won't draw it unless there is flow on (artificial or natural) and they need storage room.
Hairdryers at dawn

 

[joelsoo]

You only really need the insulation under the roof, just cut a big square and lay it on top of the crown board.

Condensation will form on the coldest internal surface of the the hive, so if you insulate the roof it retain the warmth from the cluster and condensation will form on the hive walls that a furthest from the cluster. This is no bad thing as the bees can make use of this water instead of having to leave the hive. Be sure to also block off all holes apart from the entrance - you do not want air flowing through the hive as this will cool it down and allow more condensation to form.

Ah thanks everyone for all the advice. Yeah I heard about the condensation on sides being a good thing too as bees uses the water.

Ok just before I cut up some celotex and put over the crown board, just wanna check with my setup to see if it's suitable. I run a single national brood box of bees as I don't have any supers this year. They are fed since September till now. I think it's fairly full. Crown board goes over the brood box, then national roof goes over it. I was told I may need to feed in Jan, maybe Feb if the hive is light and they used up their food supply. Question now is if I need to feed fondant then, I am getting mixed info here. Some ppl say feed via crown board hole, some say put fondant on frames, put an eke, and put crown board over and roof over. Question is, should fondant feeding be on frames or on crown board. If its on crown board, then the celotex gets in the way? The plan was to put the celotex tight to underside of the roof, so there is some clearance for the fondant, or use another eke to create the clearance?

Apologise if I am sounding dumb it's my 5th month into beekeeping so everything is new to me and been reading/ asking around etc. They don't really teach details like this in the beekeeping course... ��