Foundation Free Frames

[teapot]

I've been experimenting, for a few years, with foundation free frames and I am slowly replacing my old frames (wired foundation) with the foundation free ones. I have documented my successes and failures on my web site. There's also a short video on construction. I'd be interested to hear about other peoples methods.

To read more visit:

queensandbeans.uk

 

[Fusion_power]

For deep frames, 3 strands of 20 lb test monofilament fishing line across will provide adequate support. Be sure to set the hive level so the bees build the fishing line into the midrib of the comb. The bees are far more accepting of fishing line than of wire and readily incorporate it into nicely drawn combs.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Fishing line is excellent for re-inforcing even my 14x12 frames and you can twist them about all ways when looking at them. You have to be able to do that at they tend to start drawing the comb at two or three different places from the starter strip then join them.....and they hide queen cells at the joins

 

[teapot]

Interesting. I went for something rigid and wood-like assuming the bees would prefer it to man made materials but the monofilament seems to be a good solution.
Unfortunately I don't think monofilament would survive my handling as I recycle my old frames through a steam wax melter I made, to strip and purify the wax in one go, and to sterilise the frames. But that's an assumption which needs testing. I think I'll have a go at putting some monofilament through my steam machine and see what happens. Thanks for your replies.

 

[Little John]

I used to use fishing line but have now moved over to vertical bamboo skewers:

LJ

 

[domino]

Hi,

You mention on your blog post that research shows that bees hatch up to two days faster in naturally drawn comb than on foundation. Any chance you could cite the research?

 

[Itchy]

I found they built severa combs either side of fishing line. Now just use wax coaster coffee stirrers to start, no other support.

 

[Eyeman]

I use starter strips in all my bait hives.
Get a good size swarm in a bait hive and leave them a week and all frames are drawn and secured.

 

[madasafish]

Foundation free and jumbo Langstroth is an exercise in near but not quite futility.

I am 90% converted to foundation.

 

[Little John]

Foundation free and jumbo Langstroth is an exercise in near but not quite futility.

For you perhaps - but not for everybody. I'm finding that the deeper the frames, the more prolific the colony. I strongly suspect that Chas Dadant knew a thing or two.
LJ

 

[domino]

Foundation free and jumbo Langstroth is an exercise in near but not quite futility.

I am 90% converted to foundation.

I went foundation free and found it worked really well on nationals, 12x14s were too much trouble for me. Most of my stuff is on national now with no foundation.

 

[thenovice]

I went completely foundationless on my 14x12 with monofilament as a support last year. did not really notice a difference in speed of comb building. when they draw, they draw. I went back to foundations in the BB as over 1/3 was drone brood. This is not a problem as such but if you use foundation, you can choose where and when you insert drone brood and take it out easily when you want to cull for IPM or when you want to increase worker brood. without foundation, WB and DB are mixed on the frames and that makes doing anything specific a pain IMHO.

 

[Finman]

The bees are far more accepting of fishing line than of wire .

That really needs imagination. When bees draw over wire, there is no difference in those cells.

I use again the wires when I melt old combs off.

I just measured that bees draw half of cell walls with foundation wax.
(100g/sheet)
.
Do bees draw fast? IT has no meaning. Every hive has drawn its combs in my hives since las 50 years.... When they need the combs.

 

[Little John]

The reason I posted about using vertical bamboo skewers is that 'teapot' was unhappy about the prospect of fishing line melting/drooping if placed into a wax melter. No such problem when using bamboo skewers.

BTW - to draw 100% worker-cell foundationless comb, either use a nucleus-sized hive to draw the comb, or get your stock of new combs drawn in September, after the drones have been evicted.
LJ

 

[charlievictorbravo]

The reason I posted about using vertical bamboo skewers is that 'teapot' was unhappy about the prospect of fishing line melting/drooping if placed into a wax melter. No such problem when using bamboo skewers.

BTW - to draw 100% worker-cell foundationless comb, either use a nucleus-sized hive to draw the comb, or get your stock of new combs drawn in September, after the drones have been evicted.
LJ

Will they really draw wax in September? Have they done it in your hives or is it theoretical?

CVB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Will they really draw wax in September?

Yes, and during October.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes if you put a frame into the middle of the brood nest. It will get filled with winter bees

 

[Finman]

Yes if you put a frame into the middle of the brood nest. It will get filled with winter bees

That is really the most stupid thing, what you can ever invent.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well, Finman it works for me.
I usually put one, maybe two...but not at the same time. It gets drawn super fast and the queen lays it up end to end. The bees are still strong enough, there is nectar and pollen still coming in, the varroa load is small as they have been treated and I get a whole frame of winter bees on new comb.
Anybody else do this?

 

[rolande]

That is really the most stupid thing, what you can ever invent.

Your inexperience says it all.