Flow Hive - more info

[Jugular]

Am I correct in thinking that the flow hive is only the 'super' element on a standard BB?
If so, if the expected issues arise, all will not be lost as the addition of 'normal' supers would give a workable conventional hive set-up and any bees resident in the BB won't need to be evicted.

Exactly. One of the reasons I don't feel my £450 (inc P&P) would be all lost if the various experts who have tested it out are wrong. I don't know how common Longstrath supers are in the UK though?

Another point, I've backed numerous things on Indiegogo and Kickstarter and I've kept tabs on dozens of others. I've come across a couple of bad eggs, and frankly most of them could have been sniffed out with a little diligence. It's common to get delays in fulfillment so I will not be surprised if it's delayed by up to a year, beyond that and I'll be disappointed but sometimes it's nice to be on a cutting edge of sorts.

With regards to the ill-informed comment, I don't intend to question people's knowledge of general beekeeping but rather knowledge of the FlowHive, since many of the 'issues' raised are well covered on the main indiegogo page. There are outstanding questions of those that I've heard which I haven't seen good responses to, such as the angle of the hive (will adjusting the angle during 'flow' disturb the bees as much as opening the hive would have? I would guess not), ventilation of the super for ripening the honey and the effect of pollen stores on the flow mechanism.

Unlike the common characterisation of thinking the 'difficult' bit has been taken out of the equation I felt the saving of money and space for honey processing equipment worth the extra cost and risk of the system.

 

[einsteinagogo]

"and frankly most of them could have been sniffed out with a little diligence."

From my personal experience.....(and I'm done with Kickstarters and IGG), I'll wait until it appears in a store, or online purchase.

I backed an existing Spanish Company called Idapt from Barcelona, which is already an name in Gadget circles, sold in Maplins, Currys Digital, Firebox, Gadget Shops, etc In business since 2006, so an established name.... (many of the individuals, in idapt, I have personal connections with in LinkedIn, and personal email addresses, and the CEO and Founder!)

As it was an existing company, and I had received an email from this company to back a Kickstarter project they had, as an existing registered user of their products, the last thing I expected was for them to raise cash through kickstarter, to bugger off to a dessert island in the sun, with our money!

and the CEO states to me, sorry the project failed, and as for the money, there is no requirement for us under the Kickstarter agreements to give the money back, so you have to ask what was the money used for!!!!

and the CEO states, money was paid to the company, and he is not personal liable!

and his name is

Jacques GIRIBET
Founder & CEO - IDAPT
Accessorized with IDAPT

So, if you come across him, send him my regards!

 

[theeggman]

Langstroth hives and parts are readily available in the UK, But I believe there could be dimension issues as it appears they vary by country. Nothing that couldn't be sorted I'm sure.

 

[jezd]

Exactly. One of the reasons I don't feel my £450 (inc P&P) would be all lost if the various experts who have tested it out are wrong. I don't know how common Longstrath supers are in the UK though?

Have you seriously paid £450 for a honey super (with a tap)?

Still laughing here.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm just wondering who these 'various experts' are

 

[Jugular]

Have you seriously paid £450 for a honey super (with a tap)?

Still laughing here.

No.

 

[einsteinagogo]

fyi - The Landed Cost could be more, Import Duty, VAT and Administration fee, could be added. Not sure if Duty is charged on wood, unlike metal.

So, you may have to pay an additional £100 approx to Parcel Force before they deliver the item.

Which I hate, these days that HMRC, tax everything over £15 (even if marked as gift) incoming in the UK!

Even Free T-Shirts I win!

 

[Dishmop]

I was hoping to come on here or join a local group to ensure I can get the best advice on all this but the willingness here to add uninformed comment and outright distaste for anyone willing to put their time and money into the hobby has me getting second thoughts of engaging at all.

As you admit to not really knowing anything about beekeeping how can you come to the conclusion that the comments that people here make are "ill informed"?

My thoughts are that if it isnt a con that it isnt likely to work in this country anyway.

 

[Dishmop]

I'm just wondering who these 'various experts' are

The people who are making it I suppose.


(allegedly)

 

[einsteinagogo]

<suip>

My thoughts are that if it isnt a con that it isnt likely to work in this country anyway.

Hey Dishmop, is this based on the warmth/runny-ness of the honey, and if it flows out?

i'm still wondering how do you know when it's time to turn the tap on?

do you drain some off, and test with refractometer, for water content.

how can you tell if all the frame is capped, and hence the honey is ripe, I have enough problems with OSR honey, and getting it off before it granulates in the hive.

open the hive and check I suppose....

 

[pargyle]

Well all I can say is good luck - whilst nobody on here has first had experience of a Flow Hive there is a vast amount of beekeeping knowledge in the members on here. Including some cutting edge and very innovative beekeeping - the negative comments about the FH are made with a degree of understanding of harvesting honey in the UK with its fairly unique climate.

Yes, if it doesn't work you still have some bee boxes and could easily convert to more conventional beekeeping and credit to you for joining and admitting that you have invested in this project. As an off the wall beekeeper myself (not with a flow hive) my advice would be to learn about more conventional ways of keeping bees - you still have time this year to get a Nuc and build them up this season ready for the arrival of your new Flow Hive ... A paynes poly hive complete is only going to cost you £112 and by the end of this season you may even have a super filled with your own honey that you could crush and strain - without anything more that a plastic bucket, a funnel and a straining cloth.

There is nothing better than hands on experience with bees alongside some reading and a good association - they may even find you some bees for nothing or at worst a small contribution to the association.

It may not be 'honey on tap' but it will give you a head start on what to expect ... and Paynes deliver their orders in about three days usually ... just in time for a swarm if things start happening like last year.

The other advice that someone will give you is .. one hive is no good - you need two so that when things go belly up you have another hive to fall back on - they don't seem to tell potential flow hive beekeepers that on their site ?

As has been said, genuinely, we are always pleased to see new beekeepers - whatever flavour their hive is - but try not to alienate us with posts that suggest we are a lot of Luddites - that's far from the truth.

 

[Hivemaker.]

how can you tell if all the frame is capped, and hence the honey is ripe,

Open the hive and examine the frames first.

 

[Dishmop]

Hey Dishmop, is this based on the warmth/runny-ness of the honey, and if it flows out?

i'm still wondering how do you know when it's time to turn the tap on?

do you drain some off, and test with refractometer, for water content.

how can you tell if all the frame is capped, and hence the honey is ripe, I have enough problems with OSR honey, and getting it off before it granulates in the hive.

open the hive and check I suppose....

spinning the stuff out is hard enough so I cant see it running out as in the videos/pics.......................unless somebody is pouring it in the top.........

Ever uncapped a frame and left it upside down to drain? Days.... in a warm kitchen.

One thing that puzzles me about the FH is that when the honey is draining into a jar.....................


why are there no bees taking any interest?

 

[theeggman]

Well all I can say is good luck - whilst nobody on here has first had experience of a Flow Hive there is a vast amount of beekeeping knowledge in the members on here. Including some cutting edge and very innovative beekeeping - the negative comments about the FH are made with a degree of understanding of harvesting honey in the UK with its fairly unique climate.

Yes, if it doesn't work you still have some bee boxes and could easily convert to more conventional beekeeping and credit to you for joining and admitting that you have invested in this project. As an off the wall beekeeper myself (not with a flow hive) my advice would be to learn about more conventional ways of keeping bees - you still have time this year to get a Nuc and build them up this season ready for the arrival of your new Flow Hive ... A paynes poly hive complete is only going to cost you £112 and by the end of this season you may even have a super filled with your own honey that you could crush and strain - without anything more that a plastic bucket, a funnel and a straining cloth.

There is nothing better than hands on experience with bees alongside some reading and a good association - they may even find you some bees for nothing or at worst a small contribution to the association.

It may not be 'honey on tap' but it will give you a head start on what to expect ... and Paynes deliver their orders in about three days usually ... just in time for a swarm if things start happening like last year.

The other advice that someone will give you is .. one hive is no good - you need two so that when things go belly up you have another hive to fall back on - they don't seem to tell potential flow hive beekeepers that on their site ?

As has been said, genuinely, we are always pleased to see new beekeepers - whatever flavour their hive is - but try not to alienate us with posts that suggest we are a lot of Luddites - that's far from the truth.

Pargyle,

Let's not shoot the man for having the balls to come on here. He may need help as time goes on, but we all want to keep bees for our various reasons.
At least he has stood up to be counted, so if/ when things go ti*s up he's got some info. to help.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I was hoping to come on here or join a local group to ensure I can get the best advice on all this but the willingness here to add uninformed comment and outright distaste for anyone willing to put their time and money into the hobby has me getting second thoughts of engaging at all.

Well, you've now chosen to 'engage', so good luck to you with your project.

A lot of people have fond memories of watching, or helping, with bees when they were children, it's as good a reason as any to start beekeeping.

You will be at the sharp end of a fairly steep learning curve because not only will you be new to beekeeping but you will also be using novel equipment you've only seen in a video, and seen described in written comments online.

There are plenty of beekeepers who use non-standard equipment, some make their own, some buy innovative and expensive products. It doesn't matter much whether bees are kept in a top bar hive made from scaffold boards or something very much more expensive - as long as the bees are happy, and healthy.

Exactly. One of the reasons I don't feel my £450 (inc P&P) [(including a brood box and queen excluder, just so you know).] would be all lost if the various experts who have tested it out are wrong. I don't know how common Longstrath supers are in the UK though? ...

With regards to the ill-informed comment, I don't intend to question people's knowledge of general beekeeping but rather knowledge of the FlowHive, since many of the 'issues' raised are well covered on the main indiegogo page. There are outstanding questions ...

Unlike the common characterisation of thinking the 'difficult' bit has been taken out of the equation I felt the saving of money and space for honey processing equipment worth the extra cost and risk of the system.

Anybody can read the information on the IGG pages and watch the videos, but somebody who has no experience of bees or beekeeping may not be aware of the potential pitfalls and might not have noticed things that seem to be missing from, in particular, the videos - bees.

The IGG page suggests that the hive boxes/floor etc will need painting, so it is unlikely to be cedar. A lot of UK beekeepers use Langstroths. You can buy cedar Langstroths, including two supers, for much less than £450. Polystyrene hives are even cheaper. You can buy budget starter kits, which include protective clothing, for less than £450.

Not all beekeepers have their own extractor, many will hire one for a couple of days from their BKA. Some don't bother with an extractor, they use 'crush and strain' and a sieve or colander, something that would be quite difficult to do with a flow frame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks as if you may have bought a setup that includes a single super containing either 6 or 7 "flow frames". Most colonies will fill more than one 10 frame super during the honey flow. Where are your bees, which you will have to buy separately, put the rest of their honey? You may well find that you will quickly need to buy some other equipment.

Whatever you do, and however things pan out for you and the other IGG investors, good luck with your beekeeping.

You may think too many on here are caustic, the truth is that we are cautious, but we'll help when and how we can.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Open the hive and examine the frames first.

Yes, that's what I understood, was how to check, glad I'm doing something right then!

 

[einsteinagogo]

spinning the stuff out is hard enough so I cant see it running out as in the videos/pics.......................unless somebody is pouring it in the top.........

Ever uncapped a frame and left it upside down to drain? Days.... in a warm kitchen.

One thing that puzzles me about the FH is that when the honey is draining into a jar.....................


why are there no bees taking any interest?

good points, I try to extract late in the evenings, in the dark, otherwise I have bees everywhere!

and try and heat the kitchen up to get it warmer, with a fan heater, to get the honey to flow faster....

 

[dexter's shed]

Am I correct in thinking that the flow hive is only the 'super' element on a standard BB?
If so, if the expected issues arise, all will not be lost as the addition of 'normal' supers would give a workable conventional hive set-up and any bees resident in the BB won't need to be evicted.

the flow hive comes in lots of different forms, either a complete hive (BB and super with flow frames) or just frames

I too took a chance and ordered 6 frames, I have use of a club extractor but found it to be too time consuming and messy, I do the crush and strain on the left overs from the cut comb I produce, ordering just frames I figured I could adapt a box and place them above a super or two, and wouldn't it be great if they work as good as all the video's, time will tell, perhaps the admin will give us our own section same as the beehaus lot,lol

 

[Hivemaker.]

Ever uncapped a frame and left it upside down to drain? Days.... in a warm kitchen.

One thing that puzzles me about the FH is that when the honey is draining into a jar.....................

why are there no bees taking any interest?

Uncapping a frame of honey and letting it drain is completely different from how a flow frame works, by just uncapping the honey is still held in more by vacuum (similar to an inverted contact feeder) while in the flow frames the comb is split vertically, allowing air in, and the honey to flow out much more easily.

 

[Ely]

Unlike the common characterisation of thinking the 'difficult' bit has been taken out of the equation I felt the saving of money and space for honey processing equipment worth the extra cost and risk of the system.

You will need at least 3 or 4 supers. More than that during a really good flow. So unless you intend to fork out the extreme expense for each of them to be flow frame supers you will need to extract using traditional methods anyway. Another reason why I see the flow hive as unpracticle