First Winter Questions!!

[B3njy]

Hi All

This is my first post here so I hope this is the right place for this question.

I have a colony which is currently in 2 national deeps. The second deep is almost entirely filled with capped honey except 1 or 2 frames.

My question is, should I harvest the entire box? I've seen people saying they need the space so should harvest and give fresh frames of wax for them to draw out.

I wouldn't want to leave them without stores enough stores though. If I harvest the frames, add new frames and feed 1:1 sugar, will this be enough for them?

I'm not fussed if I have no harvest at all really, whatever is best for the bees.

Another question regarding Apiguard, is it too late for this treatment? Should I just leave it and use oxylic acid in the winter?

Thanks in advance for your advice

 

[Vortex]

If you're not fussed about having a harvest then just leave the second box as is .. getting frames drawn at this time of year is hit and miss (more often miss than not).

However.. any varroa treatment except MAQS will taint any honey, which technically means that if your bees don't use it all over the winter you wouldn't be in a position to extract it for sale next year.

Assuming you have a queen excluder between the boxes, and the queen is not laying in the upper box, you could remove the upper box, treat for varroa, and then put the box back on. Note if you put it back on top you need to remove the queen excluder, so that the bees can move up during the winter. You could however place it back under the existing brood box, the bees will then move the honey up..but are unlikely to descend during the winter to the lower box.

As to varroa treatments, I believe, unless it suddenly gets colder that we are currently within the specified range for using Apiguard.. personally I use Apilife Var. Both are Thymol based treatments. What ever you do you do not want to just leave it and wait to treat in the winter.

Another thing to note is that if your bees have 5 or less frames of brood, you will probably need to adjust your varroa treatment to match, one of the reasons I like Apilife Var; it's easy to use half, a third, or 2/3 of a square as opposed to the full tray no matter what with Apiguard.

 

[user 6228]

So where is the Ivy honey going to go?

 

[Midland Beek]

There ain't no bees who are going to draw out wax in Aug/Sept.

I would overwinter with two deeps making sure the top box was mostly full of foodstores, so that might just mean rotating the two boxes you have at some point. And take out any queen excluder.

 

[B+.]

My question is, should I harvest the entire box? I've seen people saying they need the space so should harvest and give fresh frames of wax for them to draw out.

Where is their pollen? If, as I suspect its in the upper box, you'll probably ruin the comb trying to extract it (it will blow out in the extractor). If you have frames without pollen on, there's nothing to prevent you from harvesting those although, if you do this, do it quickly and get the combs back on to be re-used (it probably isn't worth all the cleaning up afterwards for a few combs of honey).
I would certainly not be giving fresh foundation to a colony at this time of year. In my area, they don't draw foundation properly after mid-summer. If they need feeding, 1:1 syrup is too dilute. At this time of year, they will need 2:1 syrup (a pressure cooker works well to dissolve this concentration of sugar) so they can ripen and store it quickly.

 

[oliver90owner]

No extractor? The obvious, if you have one, is to extract some or all and return the frames for the bees to at least clean up. Generally a brood box is considered adequate stores for the winter. The brood and a shallow would be more than adequate for nearly all scenarios in the south of England!

It's not too late for most things re bees. It is only August! They would even draw comb if you fed them enough sugar syrup.

Do not leave your varroa treatment until mid-winter! All your winter bees need to be reared under as varroa-free conditions as possible. Virus infected bees do not winter as well as healthy ones. Winter oxalic is not the correct strategy for over-wintering colonies - it is only an effective way to start off the new season with low levels of infestation.

RAB

 

[B3njy]

Thanks guys!

I'll inspect both boxes for their stores and take into account all your responses. Will be adding their mite treatment this week certainly!

 

[BeeJayBee]

There ain't no bees who are going to draw out wax in Aug/Sept.

Really?
#10 this thread http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=364119#post364119

If you only have a few colonies I would be getting them home now, and fed for winter very soon, but do not overfeed as it can reduce the amount of late brood they can raise before winter, plus September is the very best month of the year for renewing a few combs in the nest, as brood comb drawn this month (during feeding!) is perfect and devoid of drone cells. Place a few frames with new foundation in the centre of the nest area, never two together, interspersed with the old combs, feed the hive, and look at the results.​

and
#16 http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20503&page=2

Some of our friends in Denmark, superb beekeepers who have winter losses far less than mines, are *NOW* (as in this very date [8th September 2012]) putting the bees onto whole boxes of fresh foundation and feeding..........NO DRAWN COMB at all! They still have an adequate window to both raise a generation of brood and put away enough natural pollen to see then through to early spring.​

 

[charlievictorbravo]

In addition to the earlier carefully considered responses and in Finman's absence, I would point out that Honey is worth about £10 a kilo but you can now buy sugar for £0.43 a kilo. Nuff said?

CVB

 

[madasafish]

There ain't no bees who are going to draw out wax in Aug/Sept.
..

Err I am feeding sugar ( as none of my hives bar one have any stores) and the bees in two of the smaller hives are slowly drawing out Langstroth JUMBO frames... The weather has largely been horrible and although we have HB it's about 800 meters away and they appear to be foraging closer to home..Lots of yellow pollen coming in, not much nectar..

 

[Erichalfbee]

There ain't no bees who are going to draw out wax in Aug/Sept.

At this time of year a strong colony will happily draw out a frame of foundation put in the middle of the brood nest and the queen will lay it up full of winter bees

 

[B3njy]

I harvested just one frame in the end as i looked at the second I noticed the queen on it!! Didn't want to risk her with further intrusion.

I would brave harvesting a couple more if I was sure they had the time to redraw comb! Some here say yes, others say nay