First swarm.

[IBeeZac]

My bees swarmed on Wednesday!

Luckily they settled on a friendly neighbours gate.

I collected them in a cardboard box, stuck an extra super on the hive and returned them. Is this ok? I inspected again today and it looks like the stayed put, cleaned up the new super and are adding honey to it already.

The hive does appear to have HUGE number of bees. It’s now 1x 10DN and 2x 10SN in a wbc.

Will they swarm again soon? How long do I have to get another hive/queen and do a split? Not done a split before either!!

 

[JamezF]

For clarity, you're saying you collected the swarm (including the queen that was with it) and returned them all, including that queen, to the hive they came from?

James

 

[IBeeZac]

I believe so, however I also believe my queen was clipped, so no idea how she might have flown the 100m to the neighbours gate!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Never assume - when you say you believe the queen was clipped - who clipped her? have you ever seen her with her wing clipped?if the queen was still with them, they'll be off again tomorrow.
Did you look in the hive? do anything with the queen cells they left behind?

 

[JamezF]

when you say you believe the queen was clipped - who clipped her? have you ever seen her with her wing clipped?

Is it even the same queen? Could have been superseded?

James

 

[Sutty]

If the old queen is on the ground somewhere (maybe with a small clump of workers) then they will be off again with the first virgin to emerge.
Assuming best scenario and they swarmed as the 1st queen cell was sealed (on its day 9) it's now on day 12 and will emerge in 4 days (could be less!) - when they will probably swarm with her.
Inspect them, cut back to one queen cell unless you spot a luckily returned marked queen in which case make a split, and cross your fingers.

 

[Antipodes]

Is it even the same queen? Could have been superseded?

James

My thoughts too. A prime swarm can leave and settle very quickly (about 10 minutes) and are easily missed but as Sutty says, check the ground. I suspect this is one of the cast swarms (perhaps not even the first cast) with a virgin. The frames will need checking for other queen cells.

 

[IBeeZac]

Thanks all. Just to clarify, they swarmed on Wednesday and were returned to the hive on Wednesday. I did an inspection today (Saturday) and there were tons and tons of bees.

Looked in the hive, but didn’t touch anything - I didn’t have much time time today. There were a number of what looked like the could be queen cells, but I couldn’t really tell - too many bees!

I bought them as an overwintered colony almost exactly 1yr ago with the queen marked and clipped. I saw the queen when installed last year, but not since.

No queen on ground that I can see over the last few days.

 

[Sutty]

As I said then - get in there tomorrow, brush off the bees from a few frames and find a good queen cell, mark the top bar and remove any other QCs on it. Then shake the bees off every other frame, inspect carefully for queen cells and destroy them. Put the hive back together and wait for 3 weeks or more, then check for eggs.

 

[ericbeaumont]

stuck an extra super on the hive and returned them. Is this ok?

No, not a plan, Zac.

The colony is now in the same condition as it was when it swarmed, so will do so again, whether the old Q is in there or a rack of virgins about to emerge.

James & Antipodes make a good point: the original Q tried to go earlier and was lost; the swarm returned, but left with the first virgin to emerge and headed for your neighbour's gate.

Inspect them, cut back to one queen cell unless you spot a luckily returned marked queen in which case make a split

Problem 1 is that we know that a virgin is in the box already (clipped queen unlikely to have made it to the neighbour's gate) so leaving one QC will lead to another swarm. Problem 2 is that making a split may remove the virgin to the split, in which case leaving one QC would be the right choice.

Solution is that you must find the virgin! This sounds like it might be impossible, so a better course of action would be to split anyway, and seperate the brood from the flyers, an action likely to change the colony mind and limit risk of further loss.

Remove the current BB and floor to another spot - few feet will do. Put another BB in its place and into it put one frame of brood with a good QC, and the rest foundation. Check that frame for the virgin; if you see her, add her to the box but then leave no QC in it. Reassemble the hive without the super.

In the original box leave one good QC, remove all others and close up the hive; add the super, as this lot will need stores as they will lose the foragers to the new box on the old site.

Check both boxes for eggs after two weeks.

Tons & tons of bees is good news, but to make honey on the main flow in July you must hang on to them. Sounds like they needed 2 or 3 BBs a few weeks ago, and the same number of supers. As the colony has only one of each, it should be clear to you now that a rigid number of boxes (as beekeeping catalogues would have you believe) is insufficient to accommodate real-life rapid colony expansion.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My bees swarmed on Wednesday!

Luckily they settled on a friendly neighbours gate.

I collected them in a cardboard box, stuck an extra super on the hive and returned them. Is this ok? I inspected again today and it looks like the stayed put, cleaned up the new super and are adding honey to it already.

The hive does appear to have HUGE number of bees. It’s now 1x 10DN and 2x 10SN in a wbc.

Will they swarm again soon? How long do I have to get another hive/queen and do a split? Not done a split before either!!

Some good advice from everybody else. I 'll add the usual. You need a mentor.Have you a local BKA? It reads as if you don't really know how a colony works so you need help.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

James & Antipodes make a good point: the original Q tried to go earlier and was lost; the swarm returned, but left with the first virgin to emerge and headed for your neighbour's gate.

if that was the case then it is still classed as a prime swarm.
The possible scenario here is that by now multiple queens have emerged and are rumbling around in the hive (including the one (Or more than one) in the swarm you collected. If you are miraculously lucky, these virgins will have fought amongst themselves leaving one winner. Very little chance of that happening, so your only hope is as Eric advises then cross both fingers and legs (and try and find a rabbit's foot)
and as others have said - get a mentor, read some good beekeeping books.

 

[IBeeZac]

Thanks all for your responses.

Looks like I need to buy another hive or at least a nuc and get a split going asap (are Maisemore open on bank holidays?!?)

Re. Mentors… I have tried! Contacted both of my local BKAs a few times and not had anything back. Read a number of good books recommended on here and watched hours (to my wife’s dismay) of bee-orientated YouTube. Still, nothing quite like practical experience so thank you again for guidence!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Contacted both of my local BKAs a few times and not had anything back

You actually need to become a member of one and take an active part in the training sessions at the apiary. Then somebody there might step up to give you a hand.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

(are Maisemore open on bank holidays?!?)

no - and they don't do walk-ins any more, you have to order then arrange a collection time/date

 

[JamezF]

Re. Mentors… I have tried! Contacted both of my local BKAs a few times and not had anything back. Read a number of good books recommended on here and watched hours (to my wife’s dismay) of bee-orientated YouTube. Still, nothing quite like practical experience so thank you again for guidence!!

I'd make your YouTube choices with care. Much of the information given by beekeepers who aren't in the UK may well be plain wrong in our case, and even some of the UK ones can be unreliable. I can't recall some of the ones that are usually recommended here, so I won't just list the one I can as that seems a bit unfair. Perhaps someone else could do the honours?

James

 

[IBeeZac]

Yes, I contacted about joining/turning up to sessions/learning….

Not a sausage.

 

[IBeeZac]

little update…

Swarmed again today at lunchtime. Settled on an apply tree about 15m from the hive. By the time I got home (3.30pm) the swarm had vanished.

Still bearding on the hive.

Do I just put it down to experience and check them again in 2-3weeks to see if I can see brood in all stages?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don’t be surprised if they swarm again and maybe again

 

[rossbyjove]

little update…

Swarmed again today at lunchtime. Settled on an apply tree about 15m from the hive. By the time I got home (3.30pm) the swarm had vanished.

Still bearding on the hive.

Do I just put it down to experience and check them again in 2-3weeks to see if I can see brood in all stages?

I had one swarm from my hive about a week ago but they decided to go back in.
Then had two swarm from my hive a couple of days ago on the first day of weather good enough to open up and inspect!
Didn't manage to catch either.
Woman down the road had two swarms from her hive same day, could not catch either.
Yesterday I was in the veg garden and watched a swarm turn up in next doors garden.
Head hight, did not bother with the Nuc as they have refused to stay put in it.
So emptied them out into a hive I had setup.
Still there this morning. My first successful swarm catch.
I am only in my third year but this is ridiculous there are swarms everywhere!