First attempt at queen rearing

[maddydog]

Like most beeks I've lasted til now with a mixture of bought in queens and letting the bees produce their own.
My bees are rarely troubled with disease/disorders but the temperament can be hit and miss so thought it was time to start being a bit more selective.
Constructed a frame and stuck cupkit cells on to it. 'seasoned' in a starter for 24hrs I then grafted from my best queen using the Chinese grafting tool. My eyesight is pretty good but I still found it fiddly especially getting the membrane to slide under the larvae. 24hrs later and much to my surprise 17 of 18 cells seem to have taken (larvae sitting in a pool of jelly with bees starting to build wax.
I united the starter to the finisher using some magic spray and excluded the queen into the lower box.
Not sure what I'm going to do with the QCs yet. Incubator possibly? Mature cell in each mating nuc? Is it possible to put hair rollers over each cell in the finisher and let them hatch naturally?

 

[For want of a better word]

Hatch them in the Hair rollers in the incubator... then you can check that the queens are complete... I have noticed a few of the yellow stripies have deformed wings... possibly a virus that has come in with imports?

Introduce your virgins to mating nucs as soon as you can.... 2 days in incubator with a bit of fondant and a drop of water... at most!

Good luck

Nos da

 

[maddydog]

Thanks.

From a review of the literature there appears to be positives and negatives to either introducing virgins or mature QCs.

The ability to check and mark the queens before introduction would be useful but successful introduction sounds like a minefield compared with dropping in a mature QC. Tricky

 

[B+.]

The ability to check and mark the queens before introduction would be useful but successful introduction sounds like a minefield compared with dropping in a mature QC. Tricky

With a mature queen cell, you don't know if the queen has emerged. You also don't know if it's really the queen you think it is because she isn't marked (especially so in the case of open matings when queens can return to a different nucleus).
For me, its very important to know which queen it is but, for other people, it may not be important at all. It depends what your objectives are.

 

[maddydog]

With a mature queen cell, you don't know if the queen has emerged. You also don't know if it's really the queen you think it is because she isn't marked (especially so in the case of open matings when queens can return to a different nucleus).
For me, its very important to know which queen it is but, for other people, it may not be important at all. It depends what your objectives are.

Indeed, I'm hoping for a general improvement in my stock and to save some money
Much as I'd love a scientific and methodical approach, I'll take one step at a time!

 

[maddydog]

Just checked the finisher and all the QCs are now covered in new drone comb? Opened up a cell expecting it to be empty and there was a big fat live larvae with plenty of royal jelly? Is this normal??

 

[madasafish]

Just checked the finisher and all the QCs are now covered in new drone comb? Opened up a cell expecting it to be empty and there was a big fat live larvae with plenty of royal jelly? Is this normal??

Yes.. Wait till 2 days from emergence and then clean off the comb..(too fragile before.)

I assume you were feeding teh finisher or had a flow on. A narrow topbar and stopping feeding after QCs are capped is reputed to help.. worked for me .

 

[maddydog]

Oops. Too late they're all in the hedge

2-3 days away from emergence I opened up a couple and they looked dead (do they move at all in the QC?) so assumed they'd been abandoned in the finisher or defective in some way. Two weeks of work for me and the bees but live and learn.

 

[maddydog]

2nd round of grafting today. First attempt yielded 17/18 started, with 10/18 sealed QCs so will see how I fair this time. I've increased the number of cells on the frame to 24.

 

[maddydog]

2nd attempt was a complete bust. At a loss as to why 0 of 24 grafts didn't take, further investigations yielded an unmarked virgin in the starter colony courtesy of mid supersede!

3rd attempt and my grafting technique (Chinese tool) is getting much faster. Old, tough comb helps enormously. Transferred the graft frame earlier to the Q+ finisher and I would say 21 of 24 have taken.

 

[B+.]

2nd attempt was a complete bust. At a loss as to why 0 of 24 grafts didn't take, further investigations yielded an unmarked virgin in the starter colony courtesy of mid supersede!

3rd attempt and my grafting technique (Chinese tool) is getting much faster. Old, tough comb helps enormously. Transferred the graft frame earlier to the Q+ finisher and I would say 21 of 24 have taken.

Sometimes it helps to fold down part of the cell with the hive tool. Reducing the height of the cell can improve your visibility of the larvae and give you more space to manouvre

 

[maddydog]

Checked today and 22 of 24 had formed QCs. However.... all but 7 have big holes in the side and have been cleaned out. The tips to all of the cells have been thinned and the queens are/were due for emergence on Sunday.

Is this rate of attrition usual? Have the bees detected abnormalities within the queens or something else?

Thanks

 

[maddydog]

Looks like the 'something else' was a virgin queen running around from somewhere! Likely to do with the supercede event from earlier I imagine. Queen rearing proving trickier than I expected. Will give it one more go this year and use an incubator this time so I can see exactly what is happening.

 

[B+.]

Queen rearing proving trickier than I expected. Will give it one more go this year and use an incubator this time so I can see exactly what is happening.

I harvest the cells as soon as they are sealed. I'd rather pay a bit in electricity than get to the end of the queen rearing process and find that the cells were destroyed by the bees. That is....unless your incubator goes haywire and cooks the cells! (as mine did yesterday).
Did you put an excluder over the entrance (https://youtu.be/kyzAS5eZ2xA?t=22m25s)? I have to admit that I often neglect this detail. I lost 30 cells last week because of that oversight.

 

[nantmoel]

I always do the same, as soon as they are sealed I move them to an incubator and put a 'roller cage' over them with a little honey in ready for the virgin to have a little feed. If you don't have an incubator I would cage them in the hive.

 

[wightbees]

Cages is what I'm going for, just hoping the bees are playing ball with me !

 

[maddydog]

Soooo the new queen, even though mated, was slim enough to pass through the queen excluder up through two supers and into the finishing brood box on top of the stack.

I've split the colony into two and caged the remaining cells. I'll see if any actually survived and take it from there.

 

[wightbees]

That's unlucky, maybe do another batch quick to replace? I'm definitely going with cages, going to check tomorrow, fingers crossed lol

 

[maddydog]

That's unlucky, maybe do another batch quick to replace? I'm definitely going with cages, going to check tomorrow, fingers crossed lol

Yeah mix of bad luck and ineptitude

Probably only a few queens short this year after all so might leave it. Think I'll be incubating next time though!

 

[thebhoy]

Not intending to hijack this post but quick related question....What incubators are you guys using?

Have just returned one I had as it was playing up...so looking to get another.