few questions as I plan for spring

[Swarm]

He wants buckfast so no doubt they'll be well tempered and productive.

Do they come with a guarantee?

 

[Millet]

Do they come with a guarantee?

Mine did not, out of the three 2017 Queens i acquired last year two where laying for fun once they got going but one was laying at half the rate, maybe she might kick start in spring, we will see.

 

[Swarm]

Seen some that were quite belligerent too.

 

[SDM]

Seen some that were quite belligerent too.

Who's?

 

[SDM]

Do they come with a guarantee?

Given that one of the fundamental principles of buckfast bees is docility. I can guarantee your belligerent ones weren't buckfast.

 

[Swarm]

Sorry you won't take my word for it SDM but you'll just have to I'm afraid.

 

[Millet]

With open mated Buckfast Queens i can imagine it being like a lucky dip if you live in the wrong area.

 

[B+.]

Given that one of the fundamental principles of buckfast bees is docility. I can guarantee your belligerent ones weren't buckfast.

I see a lot of propaganda on this forum: some of it is true, some of it is partly true and some of it isn't true at all. The "problem" is that people become so blinkered by their own commitment to a particular bee that they stubbornly refuse to see its bad points. We need to look at the evidence objectively.
The truth is that docility isn't unique to the Buckfast bee. Nor is productivity, large colonies, or any of the other traits assigned to the Buckfast bee. This is a myth perpetuated by those who might only have a few colonies and see the Buckfasts out-performing others. It's not until you test a number of super-sisters from different lines side-by-side in the same apiary that you will see the differences....and there will be differences. There always are. The question is, what is really important? One persons priorities may be different to anothers.
Most people would agree that resistance to pests and disease, productivity, low swarming, docility and stability on the comb are important (although this is not an exhaustive list). Some might even aspire to breed from the best and look to maintain/improve the strain. However, one thing that is often overlooked is the time required to manage a line of bees. This is important once you get above a certain number and you have a limited amount of time to devote to an apiary. So, uniformity can be more important than having one, or two, star-performers with boxes piled so high you can't reach the top but cost you lots of time during inspections.
For me, I look for above average performance in a range of traits, but, I'm more interested in what is heritable than something that might appear once in a generation, never to be repeated.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am probably wrong here as my knowledge of genetics is small to say the lest.

Is not the critical problem with Buckfast that it is a mongrel and cannot be truly bred?

PH

 

[B+.]

I am probably wrong here as my knowledge of genetics is small to say the lest.

Is not the critical problem with Buckfast that it is a mongrel and cannot be truly bred?

PH

I would say: Yes. However, it would be interesting to hear how a Buckfast advocate sees it.

 

[Poly Hive]

Passed B+ the kevlar hat and jacket, dons own and awaits....

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Passed B+ the kevlar hat and jacket, dons own and awaits....

PH

No takers... too busy dissing other beekeepers chosen bee type!

BF ( whatever that is ) OK in Surrey.... not much good in this part of Cornwall.

Nos da

 

[Millet]

No takers... too busy dissing other beekeepers chosen bee type!

A bit like yee.

 

[SDM]

I am probably wrong here as my knowledge of genetics is small to say the lest.

Is not the critical problem with Buckfast that it is a mongrel and cannot be truly bred?

PH

With crossing/back crossing traits can be fixed in a.controlled population. The terms "mongrel" or "hybrid" are meaningless within such controlled populations.
The "pure" races/subspecies of honey.bee are nothing more than just crossed and backcrossed populations.l
I'm surprised at B+ agreeing with you. Does he really believe that only a pure race can be bred ? Did he explain this to the bbka when taking their breeders assessment? It might better explain his failure/ineligibility.
What.i suspect you are talking about is the hybrid vigour aspect that is no.doubt cashed in on by many claiming "Buckfast" bees, but with some of the Buckfast pedigrees going back around half a.century, are you suggesting their performance is reliant on hybrid vigour.

 

[SDM]

Sorry you won't take my word for it SDM but you'll just have to I'm afraid.

Given you won't say where they came from, i find it far more likely they weren't, so I dont.

 

[B+.]

With crossing/back crossing traits can be fixed in a.controlled population. The terms "mongrel" or "hybrid" are meaningless within such controlled populations.
The "pure" races/subspecies of honey.bee are nothing more than just crossed and backcrossed populations.l
I'm surprised at B+ agreeing with you. Does he really believe that only a pure race can be bred ? Did he explain this to the bbka when taking their breeders assessment? It might better explain his failure/ineligibility.
What.i suspect you are talking about is the hybrid vigour aspect that is no.doubt cashed in on by many claiming "Buckfast" bees, but with some of the Buckfast pedigrees going back around half a.century, are you suggesting their performance is reliant on hybrid vigour.

In reality, the Buckfast is a synthetic multi-racial hybrid. This much cannot be denied.
The pure races evolved over a much longer timescale than the fifty or so generations that the Buckfast bee has had. In evolutionary terms, this is nothing.
Hybrid vigour is not unique to the Buckfast bee. It is simply the crossing of two (or more) inbred lines which introduces a renewed vitality in the descendants that did not occur in the ancestors.

 

[Anduril]

Seen some that were quite belligerent too.

Ditto
Sold as Buckfast

 

[SDM]

In reality, the Buckfast is a synthetic multi-racial hybrid. This much cannot be denied.
The pure races evolved over a much longer timescale than the fifty or so generations that the Buckfast bee has had. In evolutionary terms, this is nothing.
Hybrid vigour is not unique to the Buckfast bee. It is simply the crossing of two (or more) inbred lines which introduces a renewed vitality in the descendants that did not occur in the ancestors.

No one's denying it's a hybrid. Were discussing the ability to select, breed and fix traits in a hybrid. The traits selected underwent exactly the same evolutionary process as in any pure race.

 

[SDM]

Ditto
Sold as Buckfast

Sadly, sold as Buckfast and being Buckfast are not the same thing., But the same is true of all bees sold. That's why I asked the origin of these Buckfast bees that swarm has guaranteed the provenance of.

 

[B+.]

Sadly, sold as Buckfast and being Buckfast are not the same thing., But the same is true of all bees sold. That's why I asked the origin of these Buckfast bees that swarm has guaranteed the provenance of.

The difficulty is that, unless you are buying from the breeder, you have no idea what you're buying. The Buckfast looks like any other hybrid and there is no way the customer can tell the difference.