few questions as I plan for spring

[SDM]

The difficulty is that, unless you are buying from the breeder, you have no idea what you're buying. The Buckfast looks like any other hybrid and there is no way the customer can tell the difference.

True of all bees, appearance is no guarantee of purity.

 

[B+.]

No one's denying it's a hybrid. Were discussing the ability to select, breed and fix traits in a hybrid. The traits selected underwent exactly the same evolutionary process as in any pure race.

This is one of those partial truths I referred to in an earlier post and, since this is the beginners forum, it may mislead a beginner.
The truth is that bee breeding depends on controlled mating over many generations (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vcpRnYhHg). It is not the same as natural selection.

 

[Swarm]

So, SDM now calls me a liar.

Obviously a bitter person and not worth knowing.

 

[Poly Hive]

No he just chose not to believe you which is his prerogative rightly or wrongly and most likely an agenda. Put on ignore.

PH

 

[SDM]

So, SDM now calls me a liar.

Obviously a bitter person and not worth knowing.

No I didn't, I said you are withholding information on their origin that would allow me to decide if they were ever buckfast at all.

 

[B+.]

No I didn't, I said you are withholding information on their origin that would allow me to decide if they were ever buckfast at all.

How would you know?

 

[Beefriendly]

Sadly, sold as Buckfast and being Buckfast are not the same thing., But the same is true of all bees sold. .

When I've questioned people about the origin of poorly behaved Buckfast it often turns out the bees they are referring to are a few generation downstream of the original import....and now 75% local bee by genetics. Not remotely like a Buckfast.
Mind I have had some Carniolans from a reputable source that were aggressive, so it's possible that some irresponsible wholesalers will sell anything to you.
Best to find a decent breeder and stick with them...the ones we use don't advertise in the glossies...they don't need too. They are practically sold out for this year already.

 

[SDM]

Swarm, if you tell me you bought queens open mated in the UK then there's pretty much infinite possibilities of traits shown. The belligerance you speak of would still be highly unusual in an F1. If you tell me they came from a breeder with control of mating through isolation or ii, using known pedigrees, I'll be stunned, but heh, they're bees, there are no absolutes.
Currently I simply doubt the bees you speak of were pure anything.

 

[B+.]

Mind I have had some Carniolans from a reputable source that were aggressive, so it's possible that some irresponsible wholesalers will sell anything to you.
Best to find a decent breeder and stick with them...the ones we use don't advertise in the glossies...they don't need too. They are practically sold out for this year already.

Excellent advice no matter what race you prefer!
As a carnica breeder myself, I am surprised to hear of reports that are contrary to my experience. However, this only serves to emphasise your point about buying from a reputable source. A beginner is unlikely to know who is reputable though. A beginner is more likely to buy from an intermediary who really doesn't know the material they are handling. This is where a forum like this can really add value in getting the word out

 

[SDM]

Excellent advice no matter what race you prefer!
As a carnica breeder myself, I am surprised to hear of reports that are contrary to my experience. However, this only serves to emphasise your point about buying from a reputable source. A beginner is unlikely to know who is reputable though. A beginner is more likely to buy from an intermediary who really doesn't know the material they are handling. This is where a forum like this can really add value in getting the word out

But are recommendations or indeed naming and shaming allowed?

 

[Beefriendly]

naming and shaming allowed?

Shaming on a public forum is not a wise move.

 

[Beefriendly]

As a carnica breeder myself, I am surprised to hear of reports that are contrary to my experience.

I was a little surprised myself. Two of us bought a batch and both had about 50% showing high aggression. If it had just been one out of the whole batch I wouldn't have given it much credence.
I was hoping for a walk in the park, but it turned into a run around the woods to get rid of the followers.
I know this not typical of Carniolans, so not blagging the strain, just pointing out there are odd rogues about. As appears Swarm might have seen with some Buckfast.

 

[SDM]

Shaming on a public forum is not a wise move.

You mean from a litigious perspective ? Possibly not, but perhaps a running thread disclaimer to the effect that the posts within are only the opinions and experiences of the individuals posting would get around the libel issue.
Even then , I guess the negative comments could get pretty ugly and a positive recommendation only thread, that didn't allow rebuttal could be misused.
Maybe not eh? But it would be valuable information to the beginner..... Potentially

 

[B+.]

You mean from a litigious perspective ? Possibly not, but perhaps a running thread disclaimer to the effect that the posts within are only the opinions and experiences of the individuals posting would get around the libel issue.
Even then , I guess the negative comments could get pretty ugly and a positive recommendation only thread, that didn't allow rebuttal could be misused.
Maybe not eh? But it would be valuable information to the beginner..... Potentially

Perhaps a better approach would be to highlight positive experiences rather than dwell on the negative ones. It would then be possible to infer who the reliable sources were. Even so, I think the best recommendations are the product of your own eyes. There is no substitute for visiting the breeder and seeing his stock yourself.

 

[Anduril]

But are recommendations or indeed naming and shaming allowed?

Defamation Act 2013.
There is a legal forum that has been asked by a certain company to remove negative comments. Information is removed to stop legal action as I believe it is run by volunteers. The company is now left with a good reputation.

 

[TooBee...]

Perhaps a better approach would be to highlight positive experiences rather than dwell on the negative ones. It would then be possible to infer who the reliable sources were.

Yes, that would be a good idea, especially for new beeks - instead of trying to find out the names of (maybe) less reputable Bee Breeders (Sellers), which in itself is potentially very useful, it would be better if the names of Breeders (that apparently don't advertise) could be posted / recommended here.

 

[colinc]

If they choose not to advertise widely then they are happy with word of mouth. If they needed, or could supply, more clients then they would advertise.


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[jenkinsbrynmair]

So, SDM now calls me a liar.

Obviously a bitter person and not worth knowing.

No, just a troll Steve - won't be the first time, he was up to those stunts before under another name.

 

[olriley]

If they choose not to advertise widely then they are happy with word of mouth. If they needed, or could supply, more clients then they would advertise.


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Isn't this word of mouth? Or at least word of keyboard


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[SDM]

No, just a troll Steve - won't be the first time, he was up to those stunts before under another name.

I imagine it was clear to Steve and everyone else some time ago that.it was the bees and not his honesty that were in question. Whilst it's apparent you struggle, do try and keep up.