Feeding Bees though the winter.

[666bees]

thanks very much, will do that this winter/early spring because at the moment i think I over fed them and left the queen nowhere to lay causing sealed queen cells to be made. But I will know for next winter.

 

[oliver90owner]

Before long all the new beeks will think it 'normal' to feed bees fondant throughout the winter months.

Let's get it in context here. Fondant is really only needed in winter as a fall-back for insufficient stores being provided in the autumn.

Naturally, bees survive or perish dependent on the stores put down for over-wintering. Occasionally a colony will perish if the weather stops them moving to new stores, but that is not the norm.

If they have sufficient stores at the start of winter they should still have at least a little left by the time foraging commences in earnest in the spring. That is the greater 'danger time' for starving, not half way through the winter if the beekeeper has done the job properly.

Feeding fondant unecessarily will likely have the effect of leaving no decent brooding space come the time for colony expansion. New beeks beware.

RAB

 

[richardbees]

666bees, I warm an egg size lump in my hands and gently press down through the hole in the cover board and repeat as necc.

 

[Juststarting]

Before long all the new beeks will think it 'normal' to feed bees fondant throughout the winter months.

Let's get it in context here. Fondant is really only needed in winter as a fall-back for insufficient stores being provided in the autumn.

Naturally, bees survive or perish dependent on the stores put down for over-wintering. Occasionally a colony will perish if the weather stops them moving to new stores, but that is not the norm.

If they have sufficient stores at the start of winter they should still have at least a little left by the time foraging commences in earnest in the spring. That is the greater 'danger time' for starving, not half way through the winter if the beekeeper has done the job properly.

Feeding fondant unecessarily will likely have the effect of leaving no decent brooding space come the time for colony expansion. New beeks beware.

RAB

RAB, Thanks for the advice - its something that was covered in our beginners course and discussed along the lines of something we should do rather than could do, I cant remember our tutor's stance but I know we came away thinking that as newbies who just want to do the best for the bees we should do it.

Its easy to see how things like this become the norm and you feel you should do it "just in case".

So just to check I've got it right - I should only consider feeding winter fondant if the hive starts to heft too light.

The problem I anticipate is as a newbie how do I know what too light is? Seems I'm off to look for a scale hook thingy so I can actually check it rather than guess this year - then when I get more hives/experience I'll be able to judge it by hefting.

 

[Leigh]

Hefting - a dark art!

It is made all the more difficult if you have a mixture of hive materials/builds. I've made my new hives this year out of ply, so they are much heavier. Even the "conventional" wood hives are all of greatly differing densities/rooves etc.

I'll be using a spring balance and will record the weight on record cards.....will definately know what is going on then. Previously I've found that hefting only really lets me know when the colony gets frighteningly light, followed by a run for fondant/syrup depending on the time of year.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

RAB, Thanks for the advice - its something that was covered in our beginners course and discussed along the lines of something we should do rather than could do, I cant remember our tutor's stance but I know we came away thinking that as newbies who just want to do the best for the bees we should do it.

Its easy to see how things like this become the norm and you feel you should do it "just in case".

So just to check I've got it right - I should only consider feeding winter fondant if the hive starts to heft too light.

The problem I anticipate is as a newbie how do I know what too light is? Seems I'm off to look for a scale hook thingy so I can actually check it rather than guess this year - then when I get more hives/experience I'll be able to judge it by hefting.

with all of that

 

[Rosti]

I saw an american beekeeper adding salt to his syrup to stop it freezing.
Anyone tried this in the uk?

Not tried it but the freezing point supression you'd get from salt is not much different to sugar and at 2:1 you already have loads in there. The one difference is at the surface where the hydroscopic tendancies of sugar will cause variable surface dilution and reduce anti-freeze properties. For the sake of a worst case 'icy crust' I don't think I would consider contaminating my syrup with salt. It may have no effect on the bees ... but I'll let someone else find that out and chances of that heavy a frost now is low, come april with dilute syrup there may be more of a threat granted.

 

[oliver90owner]

With just that one colony the new beeks will molly-coddle their charges, without doubt.

But I consider the above to be the facts of life for over-wintering bees; enough stores and leave them until spring.

Every intrusion to the colony is bad news to them. Oxalic included - 'cos they don't know it is for saving them grief later on, if that is why it is administred. Cracked propolis joints, thermal shock, disturbance of the cluster. OK if it is needed, not OK if it is not; but carried out by many as a matter of course - often those who would not normally treat anything, other than that, 'as a precaution'.

But the thinking beekeeper will be thinking much further ahead - brood space - not just 'following the rest of the sheep'. Later, instead of fondant (~14% water), the bees would benefit from extra water, rather than just extra carbohydrates, to help start the spring expansion? Definitely yes! Sping expansion is called brooding; brooding needs lots of water. The bees need extra water to make larval food to grow those larvae in a week. They may need extra protein, too. Any shortage, of any constituent, will slow the spring brooding development, maybe even arresting it.

True, if it starts too early it can lead to starvation problems (for those beeks that don't observe the signs and act on them). The outcome can be as serious as death of brood or worse - death of the colony.

So think ahead just a little more than a little. Get the water supply organised if necessary, get the frame feeders ready beforehand. Make sure there is feed available (protein and carbohydrate) if required. Get on, get ahead. Get a honey crop next year.

Remember, you need foragers (three week old bees) to collect nectar for honey production - and possibly 90% of what they collect will be needed by the bees themselves for normal hive maintenance throughout the summer; it is only the surplus that is the honey crop, so if they need 100% of the nectar collected, you will get no real harvest. Varroa affected bees do not collect much honey (extreme case is the non-flying deformed bees which had used all the resources (of a healthy bee) but emerged as useless).

With multiple colonies, individual hives can be strengthened, for foraging excess. With just one or two the best one can do is equalise or help out. With one colony, just getting it through the winter may be a feat worthy of celebration.

Too much thought? In that case, just go back to making loads of fondant.

RAB

 

[jimbeekeeper]

I saw an american beekeeper adding salt to his syrup to stop it freezing.
Anyone tried this in the uk?

You should not be feeding syrup at a time of year that could freeze even plain water.

 

[Heather]

You should not be feeding syrup at a time of year that could freeze even plain water.

Absolutely right!
Bees will not be moving enough to go to the syrup. Better to have syrup off by then and insulation on. Tucked up for winter.

 

[Juststarting]

But the thinking beekeeper will be thinking much further ahead

RAB

Again, thanks for the info -I hope to be a "thinking beekeeper" - just need a little prod to be thinking about the right/important things.

I'm sure i wont be the only newbie this year who after getting thru this winter hopefully will have the first priority to establish a second hive.

For a short period I was running 1 and a nuc after AS - unfortunately poor weather (or incompetence) prevented me ending up with second queen so I reunited, but it was immediately obvious the benefits of two hives (even just to check my first was queenless).

As my season is later than most (1100 ft altitude) I was thinking about pollen substitute and weak feed to stimulate build up prior to splitting- will be thinking about timing over winter and no doubt be asking lots more questions!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Get the water supply organised if necessary, get the frame feeders ready beforehand.

At the risk of drifting slightly off topic, are there advantages to frame feeders or does it come down to the normal personal preference? Not got any as yet, and was intending to rely on contact feeders in the spring.

 

[chycarne]

Sorry to add another line of thought, looking at BBC news they report a great autumn for fruits, and interestingly, they report that the National Arboretum say this weather pattern is similar to 1929, "Meanwhile, experts at the National Arboretum in Gloucestershire say Britain could be in line for a prolonged display of autumn colours. Its log books show the weather patterns this year most closely resemble those of 1929, which had vivid leaves on the trees until November". I looked up the year to discover it was very cold and very snowy all the way through to February. Perhaps some reserve munchies and a plan to get to hives just in case.? Some extra insulation may be useful after all. No don't open a hive when it is that cold but being able to support and plan before...

 

[Heather]

Monsieur A
I use frame feeders for a weak/small hive that need urgent help.

Contacts next - for the slightly stronger colony, and rapid feeders when you don't need to disturb but keep gently topping up. They give good idea how fast it is going down - so estimate- very hungry or storing like mad so depriving queen of space. Up to the keeper to evaluate that one!

Large colonies at the out apiaries I use the Miller (sometimes bees get through) or National jumbo (prefer these).

In the Spring if colony come through quite well I would go straight to contact - and 1:1 syrup of course to flush their digestive system

 

[madasafish]

Frame feeders are much easier for a TBH. I have three: two single bar and one triple bar. Means no interference at all with bees and no disturbance of top bars.

Refilling takes about 2 minutes incl. removing and repalcing roof. No need for any protection from what I have seen - although I always wear a veiled top.

 

[richardbees]

Heather

I'm a creaky old beekeeper: what do you mean by "1:1"? I've always assumed Sugar mix is a 2lb bag of sugar with I pint of water.

Richard

 

[Polyanwood]

Spring feed 1 lb to 1 pint

Winter feed 2lbs to 1 pint

 

[Tim1606]

We take a frame of stores from brood chamber in the hive during the height of the season and freeze it. Then in spring, when they need it most we defrost and give them back (end March/April)

Do you have to freeze the frames as we have a super that we are going to use if we have too?

 

[Black Comb]

Ref. feeders. I read in Beecraft that a contact feeder (where they take it slowly) mimics a natural honey flow so encourages brood rearing. Tried it this year and it worked for me. Not messy to use if you take an empty margarine tub with you.

Re. freezing - I understood a frame of sealed honey keeps OK without freezing - only need to freeze frames containing pollen to stop it going mouldy. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Eyeman]

the two advantages of freezing is as you say no mouldy pollen and no wax moth damage. I had to remove my frames from our freezer when the wife found them!