Feeding Bees – Why? When? Where? How?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sugar syrup can go mouldy, but sugar cakes do not.

They can - a bit of damp and mould will easily form

Bees can store sugar syrup, and cap it to make fake honey, but not so with sugar cakes.

Nonsense - they will easily water it down to a liquid, process it and store it as sugar 'honey' just the same as they will with fondant if they get the opportunity

Fondant requires long and tedious processing for its manufacture,

No it doesn't - what is tedious about adding glucose syrup and water to powdered sugar? Or in our case, just buying a 12.5 Kg slab of it ready made

Bakers fondant, sometimes recommended and used to feed bees, may contain ingredients unhelpful to bees.

Have you proof of that? baker's fondant (as opposed to other fondants on the market) contains nothing but sugar, water and glucose syrup

I have just given nine reasons why I favour the use of sugar cakes.

#
At least five of which are just unfounded 'straw man' arguments

 

[pargyle]

For understanding_bees it’s only just beginning

'Bout time it ended then.....not sure recommending dry sugar feeding as a winter feed is progression - I think the UK gave up on this as idea somewhere around 1950 ... I know we are occasionally behind the times in our beekeeping but it would be nice if we kept moving forwards rather than going backwards.

I feed Invertbee - the bees take it down well in to November if there is insulation above the feeder it keeps the syrup warm ... It does not go mouldy (doesn't need thymol to stop it happening). Emergency feed in spring - bakers fondant. No brainer ....

Some of the above posts should carry a Wedmore Warning ....

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well for whatever reasons the OP has for his choice most beekeepers in the U.K. feed liquid sugar whether it’s syrup or invert and or fondant sourced as Bakers fondant for human consumption or Bee fondant from the usual suspects.
Some folk have crazy recipes for home made fondant that involve high temperatures and vigorous whipping. Most that do try once then abandon the considerable effort in favour of removing simple wrapping.
You can make your own emergency fondant much more easily from granulated sugar and water by simply whizzing the sugar in a food processor till it is fine then adding water. No heating

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Some folk have crazy recipes for home made fondant that involve high temperatures and vigorous whipping.

I think you must have stumbled in to the wrong forum that time

 

[Erichalfbee]

I could swear we’ve had posts like this before. @understanding_bees I could almost imagine your real name is Bill

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

He doesn't ride a camel by any chance?

 

[Finman]

People worry about inverting = splitting sucrose molecyle to fructose and glucose.
But the fact is, that when a human or honeybee eate sucrose, before the sucrose goes into blood circulation, it is splitted to fructose and glucose (inverted). Bees gut handle this and you do not need worry about it. Why to pay about it?
.
I have explained this tens of times in this forum, but it has no meaning in this scientific level discursion.

Somebody wants to sel high price sugar and somebody wants to buy it.

At its best sugar cost is 10 ten fold compared to table sugar.

One category is organic sugar. Price is perhaps 3-4 fold. You need that to organic honey production.

 

[Finman]

.
You can make your own emergency fondant much more easily from granulated sugar

Emergency feeding

You may pour 1:2 syrup directly into the combs and put the combs into the hive. Mix 5 kg sugar with water. Put filled frames under the brood box. Bees move sugar to brood frames in a week.

Easy way is take 2 capped food frames from the hives which have too much stores.

 

[Finman]

“Bees can store sugar syrup, and cap it to make fake honey, but not so with sugar cakes.”

What on earth do you think they do with it

It is totally beekeepers thing, when he feeds sugar. In autumn he feeds for winter.
And if the beekeeper feed sugar to make fake honey, at least it it not syrup's fault.

Fake wise argument.....

 

[Gilberdyke John]

For understanding_bees it’s only just beginning

I'm adding him to my ignore list. Reading his contributions is like being sent back to school. Apparently we've all been doing it wrong for years until he came along to tell us what to do.

 

[understanding_bees]

To those people who have been offended, or take umbrage at my any of my postings in this discussion, I wish to say Sorry.

To see such vigorous opposition to what I said would suggest that I was guilty of some kind of heresy. Please let me preempt any “clever responses” which some may be tempted to make. All that I am asking by this comment is that you consider the claims that I made, rather than the misconstrued characterizations of my original posting.

There is much that I would like to say in my defense, but I want to try and be restrained in what I say.

I have never said that sugar cakes are “best”. I think that fondant and sugar cakes are probably similar in helpfulness, usability, nutritional benefit, etc, to the bees – provided that there are no contaminants in the fondant. There have been occasions when some knowledgeable members of this forum have written about the risks of feeding fondant or candy which has been overheated or contains ingredients other than sugar.

Dani has just written, in post #24: “You can make your own emergency fondant much more easily from granulated sugar and water by simply whizzing the sugar in a food processor till it is fine then adding water. No heating”

This sounds remarkably similar to my comment in posting #1, where I mentioned the benefits of mixing syrup (rather than just water) into the sugar: “I read very recently of a beekeeper using syrup to moisten granulated sugar, to produce hard blocks of caked sugar. The method is very simple, and requires only little effort.”

Thank you Dani for your support.

Hemo made some comments in posting #15, to which I would like to respond:
“Sugar syrup mould is easily remedied with a small amount of thymol added so not a very big issue. My bees in prep for the winter sabbatical will take down syrup or fondant readily before October's end add to bolster there already stored honey and ivy nectar should this damn rain cease.”

I have mentioned elsewhere about “prevention is better than cure”. Having to remedy (or “cure”) syrup mould indicates that additional steps need to be taken.

Hemo concluded his comment with the words: “ . . . should this damn rain cease”. Let me gently suggest, Hemo, that you avoid such extreme language. The Arabs have a proverb, based on experience, which says “All sunshine and no rain make a desert”.

The word “faff” is one which we do not use in Australia, and I had never encountered it before I joined this forum. The definition I have found for this word is to: “spend time in ineffectual activity.”

That word “faff” was used by Newbeeneil in posting #16, to describe the process of mixing sugar with syrup. I have already mentioned that I think that mixing syrup with sugar is better than just mixing water with sugar, when I responded to Dani’s comment. Newbeeneil, if you think that my method is faff, then what do you think of Dani’s method?

I do however thank Newbeeneil for the conciliatory tone in his posting #18, which he ended with the words, “Again I was agreeing with you”. But I do not retract from my claim that Newbeeneil, in his posting #11, inserted the words “Fondant is not ignored” and “Nor does fondant” into what were allegedly my comments. I had not written those words, and it was inappropriate for them to be inserted in that way.

Wilco said, in posting #17: “@Newbeeneil was, IMO fairly, responding to your post where you went on about sugar cakes being better than all other methods. He pointed out that fondant basically matches all of your claims about sugar cakes...”

Wilco, I think that I can understand the reason for you supporting Newbeeneil, BUT I had not said that sugar cakes were better. What I did say was that “I have come to the conclusion that this kind of sugar cake may have more advantages than other methods of feeding sugar to bees.” “More advantages”. I do not think that I have suggested that (good quality) fondant has disadvantages as a food for bees. Yes, I have spoken about concerns about HMF, and additives in baker’s fondant which may not be helpful to bees – but these are thoughts which had already been discussed in other threads on this forum, by other forum members, before I ever commenced this particular discussion thread.

There is much more that I could say. I have not referred to Jenkinsbrynmair’s accusatory comments, and do not want to get into a slanging match with anyone. Suffice to say that when asked to support some of his claims he seems adept at side-stepping the issue.

 

[Finman]

You asked support to some your claims!

You must sing like Frank Sinatra:
I took the blows, but I did my way
.....
But not a shy way

 

[Ian123]

I’ve never ignored anyone before but started looking for the button, and then it all became clear as I saw your from Melbourne.

 

[Patrick1]

Just to change the tac of this thread slightly before we end up down a recent thread path.

I was castigated some years ago for arguing that we should use Cane sugar rather than the imported EU beat sugars. Anyone suggest why these are so different, we could soon be back to using cane sugar. I read somewhere that Tate & Lyle had to pay a tariff to the EU to process cane sugar

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

we should use Cane sugar rather than the imported EU beat sugars.

Of course, much more sustainable to support the sugarcane growing areas of Lincolnshire rather than import EU beet sugar from halfway around the world

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I read somewhere that Tate & Lyle had to pay a tariff to the EU to process cane sugar

well, being an American company - why shouldn't they?

 

[Wilco]

Think Silver Spoon are UK grown rather than EU grown... Assuming their packaging is accurate.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is much more that I could say. I have not referred to Jenkinsbrynmair’s accusatory comments, and do not want to get into a slanging match with anyone. Suffice to say that when asked to support some of his claims he seems adept at side-stepping the issue.

Glad to see you admitting that you have no proof to back your 'theories' but with a deft sidestep you just sling the insults back

Reading his contributions is like being sent back to school.

Yes, I had a few teachers like that who had very little to contribute but loved winding up their pupils.

 

[Boston Bees]

To those people who have been offended, or take umbrage at my any of my postings in this discussion, I wish to say Sorry.

To see such vigorous opposition to what I said would suggest that I was guilty of some kind of heresy. Please let me preempt any “clever responses” which some may be tempted to make. All that I am asking by this comment is that you consider the claims that I made, rather than the misconstrued characterizations of my original posting.

There is much that I would like to say in my defense, but I want to try and be restrained in what I say.

I have never said that sugar cakes are “best”. I think that fondant and sugar cakes are probably similar in helpfulness, usability, nutritional benefit, etc, to the bees – provided that there are no contaminants in the fondant. There have been occasions when some knowledgeable members of this forum have written about the risks of feeding fondant or candy which has been overheated or contains ingredients other than sugar.

Dani has just written, in post #24: “You can make your own emergency fondant much more easily from granulated sugar and water by simply whizzing the sugar in a food processor till it is fine then adding water. No heating”

This sounds remarkably similar to my comment in posting #1, where I mentioned the benefits of mixing syrup (rather than just water) into the sugar: “I read very recently of a beekeeper using syrup to moisten granulated sugar, to produce hard blocks of caked sugar. The method is very simple, and requires only little effort.”

Thank you Dani for your support.

Hemo made some comments in posting #15, to which I would like to respond:
“Sugar syrup mould is easily remedied with a small amount of thymol added so not a very big issue. My bees in prep for the winter sabbatical will take down syrup or fondant readily before October's end add to bolster there already stored honey and ivy nectar should this damn rain cease.”

I have mentioned elsewhere about “prevention is better than cure”. Having to remedy (or “cure”) syrup mould indicates that additional steps need to be taken.

Hemo concluded his comment with the words: “ . . . should this damn rain cease”. Let me gently suggest, Hemo, that you avoid such extreme language. The Arabs have a proverb, based on experience, which says “All sunshine and no rain make a desert”.

The word “faff” is one which we do not use in Australia, and I had never encountered it before I joined this forum. The definition I have found for this word is to: “spend time in ineffectual activity.”

That word “faff” was used by Newbeeneil in posting #16, to describe the process of mixing sugar with syrup. I have already mentioned that I think that mixing syrup with sugar is better than just mixing water with sugar, when I responded to Dani’s comment. Newbeeneil, if you think that my method is faff, then what do you think of Dani’s method?

I do however thank Newbeeneil for the conciliatory tone in his posting #18, which he ended with the words, “Again I was agreeing with you”. But I do not retract from my claim that Newbeeneil, in his posting #11, inserted the words “Fondant is not ignored” and “Nor does fondant” into what were allegedly my comments. I had not written those words, and it was inappropriate for them to be inserted in that way.

Wilco said, in posting #17: “@Newbeeneil was, IMO fairly, responding to your post where you went on about sugar cakes being better than all other methods. He pointed out that fondant basically matches all of your claims about sugar cakes...”

Wilco, I think that I can understand the reason for you supporting Newbeeneil, BUT I had not said that sugar cakes were better. What I did say was that “I have come to the conclusion that this kind of sugar cake may have more advantages than other methods of feeding sugar to bees.” “More advantages”. I do not think that I have suggested that (good quality) fondant has disadvantages as a food for bees. Yes, I have spoken about concerns about HMF, and additives in baker’s fondant which may not be helpful to bees – but these are thoughts which had already been discussed in other threads on this forum, by other forum members, before I ever commenced this particular discussion thread.

There is much more that I could say. I have not referred to Jenkinsbrynmair’s accusatory comments, and do not want to get into a slanging match with anyone. Suffice to say that when asked to support some of his claims he seems adept at side-stepping the issue.

You OK hun?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You OK hun?

I'll inbox you....................