Feed the swarm? Or not?

[Terry G]

My wife and I have been having what we euphemistically refer to as 'a discussion'. Our bees swarmed into a convenient shrub last Friday and we popped them into a hive - a bait hive, as it happens, that was already primed with half a dozen frames, three of which were drawn. Since then they appear to have settled down nicely, out and about foraging and generally looking cheery.
Wife says we should be feeding them, I say they seem to be getting on perfectly well without our intervention thank you very much.
What do you lot think?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If there is forage to be had they don't need feeding.
If they were mine I would just keep an eye out. What would they be doing if you.....or any other beekeeper.....had not caught them?

 

[oliver90owner]

Just as ericA. If in doubt, sort out the discussion by simple observation. Not difficult and does not draw in useless discussion from remote third party opinions, which are frankly irrelevant.

If they need feeding, you do; if they don't, you don't. Clear as crystal, and simple, to me.

 

[Curlyrupert]

My wife and I have been having what we euphemistically refer to as 'a discussion'. Our bees swarmed into a convenient shrub last Friday and we popped them into a hive - a bait hive, as it happens, that was already primed with half a dozen frames, three of which were drawn. Since then they appear to have settled down nicely, out and about foraging and generally looking cheery.
Wife says we should be feeding them, I say they seem to be getting on perfectly well without our intervention thank you very much.
What do you lot think?

Always feed a swarm on the 2nd or 3rd day to help/speed them along regardless of forage this time of the year, they will build up faster.

 

[drstitson]

"Always feed a swarm on the 2nd or 3rd day"

if it is a swarm of known "clean" origin i.e. your own bees then you are free to feed from outset!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Curlyrupert,
I don't think so

Look at what OP said

popped them into a hive - a bait hive, as it happens, that was already primed with half a dozen frames, three of which were drawn. Since then they appear to have settled down nicely, out and about foraging and generally looking cheery.

 

[enrico]

Well there you go!!! Two opposites out of four answers! You are no better off than when you asked the question. Still, whatever you do decide to do you know you are right!
E

 

[richardbees]

There is also a fifth answer...

....which is to put a QE between the broodbox/swarm and the floor for the first few days until you see eggs. A hived swarm won't abscond once the Q starts laying.

 

[oliver90owner]

There is also a fifth answer...

Really? Looked to me as totally irrelevant to the thread.

Apart from the total irrelevance, if a prime last Friday, they will have open brood by now, if a cast, the queen would likely need to go on mating flights by now and most certainly would not have eggs by now. All ways round a reply to be placed firmly in the rubbish bin.

 

[richardbees]

Hello Oliver,

Yes, it wasn't relevant as regards feeding but imo good advice when hiving:

Our bees swarmed into a convenient shrub last Friday

..... and obviously not a cast.

Isn't it a little ill-mannered to call other posts "rubbish"?

richard

 

[oliver90owner]

and obviously not a cast.
Really? I could not be certain of that. Please explain how you are so absolutely certain. Has the poster PMed you and told you that?

Like I said, by now they would have open brood if a prime. Quite likely laying by Sunday.

Quite right, it was not relevant to the thread, and even if it was, it was far too late for the advice not sought. Only one good place for it, I reckon, just as I said.

Oh, btw, I don't think I called your post rubbish just directed it into that particular receptacle. But thinking about it a bit more, perhaps I should have. No point in beating around the bush, is there?

 

[Finman]

.
When I get a 2 kg swarm, I feed them 6 kg sugar so that they build combs with sugar and they do not spend my valuable honey in that job.

But if it is a heavy flow, they get nectar more from nature than sugar from box.
It takes one week and they have drawn one langstroth box combs.
Then they must have space where to lay.

4 kg swarm needs 2 langstroth boxes with foundations.

 

[richardbees]

....but you did!

 

[Terry G]

Oi, stop squabbling on my thread you lot.
It was, indeed, a main swarm as we saw the marked queen on the outside of the box and chivvied her in.
Anyhow, Jan has conceded the point, not least because of the weight of opinion expressed here on the forum, plus all our neighbours are very keen gardeners, the clover is out in the orchard, and the bees are in hog heaven.

As an aside, it strikes me as quite amusing that they go to all that effort to swarm then end up living in the hive next door. I wonder how they get on with the neighbours.

After an AS and a natural swarm I hope they've got it out of their system now. Curse those dratted carniolans and their obsessive wanderlust.

 

[itma]

Let me give yet another different view.

Swarm of known healthy origin - feed from the outset?
--- No. You would be simply refuelling them, heightening the risk of absconding. (Unless you put a QX under…) Let them settle and start drawing comb first. If they had been hanging around for a few days and were cold and lethargic, then sure, feed ASAP - the over-riding consideration is survival.

Known origin primary swarm, seems OK, feed it?
--- Yes, after a couple of days. Because a swarm is a comb-drawing machine. Give them a constant supply of thin syrup (don't let the feeder go empty) and see how much comb you can get them to draw for you! Sure, give them one drawn frame to help them settle and commit to staying. But after that, make them work! Reorder frames, turn them round, even replace them with foundation frames - be bold in trying to get as many frames drawn as possible, comb drawn from syrup by a swarm is the "cheapest" drawn comb you are ever going to get (it isn't costing you honey, or bee foraging time). Yes, it will wear out the swarm bees quicker, but with comb and (an artificial) "nectar flow", Q should get back into heavy-duty laying without hesitation, with pollen availability the only potential restraint on her rate of renewing the colony. If you thought there was a pollen shortage, you might also offer them pollen patties or pollen substitute.


And FWIW, I'm coming round to the idea of routinely putting a QX under a hived swarm for the first couple of days. John Hendrie said "you do it for a shook swarm, why not for shaking in a real swarm?"

 

[user 6228]

Oi, stop squabbling on my thread you lot.
....

After an AS and a natural swarm I hope they've got it out of their system now. ....

I wouldnt bank on it...

 

[itma]

…
As an aside, it strikes me as quite amusing that they go to all that effort to swarm then end up living in the hive next door. I wonder how they get on with the neighbours.
…

FWIW (according to Adrian Waring), Pagden's original scheme was to hive the (real) swarm on the very stand from which they departed. The old hive gets moved a few yards away, extra fliers rejoin the swarm at the old home site and, because the colony with the brood & sealed QCs is now greatly depleted of foragers, they won't cast!
Cunning, those Victorian beekeepers!

 

[Terry G]

All great stuff, many thanks folks. I particularly like ITMAs analogy of a comb drawing machine - so the syrup goes on tonight! (Which will not be backing down in the domestic dispute; she wanted to put on a super of uncapped stores from the original hive. A compromise, I think it's called).

Derekm: I feared as much.

I'm slowly building up my mental data resource. Whether I can retrieve it on demand or not is an entirely different matter.

 

[Mrs Shoot]

In the same boat

Thank you for this thread.
Hubby and I have been having the same argument/ discussion
I want to feed syrup.Hubby thinks they will forage and sort themselves out. Agree they will, but would be better to get them going quicker to give them a better chance of being nice and strong to get through the winter.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Terry G - put on a feeder and let the bees decide. Simple as. If they need it they will take it.