Failing colony, no brood, can I just leave it?

[Jim Newmark]

I suspected I hadn't got the queen when I caught the swarm. Rather odd, it saw it disappear from the skep and then 30 minutes later it seemed to come back. But clearly not, as six weeks later all they have managed to do is make lots of honey and pollen. They are all surprisingly good-tempered and still quite numerous, but I suppose they can't last much longer. I don't mind really, my other two hives are doing really well and the garden is too small for three.
What do I do? If I leave it to die off, will that just attract robbing?

 

[MonseigneurBienvenu]

I'm sure people will have better suggestions (including whether there is actually a queen there), but I'd just say: don't waste the bees - add them to another colony if you can (if they are indeed queenless, etc).

 

[sandysman]

I would check to see if there is a queen in there first, try offering a frame of eggs/brood if you can spare one from another hive. If they start drawing queen cells then its odds on the hive you have is queenless. If they don't its a good indicator that there is a queen in there.
If you are right and it is q- then as long as they are healthy I would unite them with one of your other hives.
If they don't start making cells then you possibly have a virgin or newly mated queen in there, then you have a decision to make.
No doubt someone will be along soon and shoot me down in flames.
Good luck.
Andy

 

[Jim Newmark]

Aren't they too old now to be of much practical use?

 

[Excession]

Too old? No.

Useful? You bet. Old bees are foragers.

 

[pargyle]

Aren't they too old now to be of much practical use?

Not from the existing hive ... from another hive. If you haven't got a frame with eggs on in one of your other hives can you beg one from someone else. It will then tell you if they are queenless as they will start to draw queen cells on fresh eggs if they are queenless.

 

[Loubylou]

Not from the existing hive ... from another hive. If you haven't got a frame with eggs on in one of your other hives can you beg one from someone else. It will then tell you if they are queenless as they will start to draw queen cells on fresh eggs if they are queenless.

I did this as my q had swarmed and I wondered whether she had been superceded so i popped in a test frame and they immediately started making emergency qc's, so i thought i was q-. when I checked again 2 weeks later I found eggs so there had been a virgin q in there to start with. You have waited 6 weeks which is a long time, so I think its highly likely your hive is q-. Pop the test frame in asap and keep yr fingers crossed that they make you a decent qc. Best of luck

 

[itma]

Yes, steal a frame from one of your other hives.
The "test frame" should have open brood (and small young open brood) and ideally eggs as well.

If they don't have a Q, they will build QCs (likely several over a few days).

Check back in 3 days and hopefully choose one well-charged open cell. Lose the others. Check again after another week - your chosen cell should now be capped, but there may be others to remove. (If you don't cull the surplus QCs you could lose adult bees in cast swarms ... )
Then the hard bit -- leave them alone for 3 weeks before checking for brood. Just watch for a sudden big increase in the number of foragers coming back with pollen as a good indication that there is a Q doing the business.

 

[shudderdun]

Can bees in a Q minus colony ever get to be to old to bother to make QC when a fresh frame of eggs are introduced ?

 

[itma]

Can bees in a Q minus colony ever get to be to old to bother to make QC when a fresh frame of eggs are introduced ?

Not too old.
But they wouldn't make QCs if there are laying workers ...

 

[shudderdun]

Its just that I did a AS on 26th June, think Q did her mateing flight on 7th July, didnt see any eggs by 16th July, thought it wouldnt do any harm to add a frame of eggs on 16th July just to see if bees would make QC, they didnt.

Checked again today 26th July, no sign of QC or eggs being layed.

Should I unite ???

 

[beeno]

Hi Shudderdun,
IMHO you probably have a dud queen in there. It is not too late to let them raise another one from donated eggs. However, whatever you do, you need to find the queen and squish her. As I know that can be very difficult in a busy hive! Good luck.

 

[Rio]

I had a similar situation a number of weeks ago, i.e. swarm and no brood after 3 weeks in the hive. So, thinking the worst, i put a test frame in expecting an emergency queen to be raised. Checked the hive this evening and found it full of brood and eggs. Obviously the queen was slow to start laying (or I was impatient), but she is going a dinger now. Maith a banrionn!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Its just that I did a AS on 26th June, think Q did her mateing flight on 7th July, didnt see any eggs by 16th July, thought it wouldnt do any harm to add a frame of eggs on 16th July just to see if bees would make QC, they didnt.

Checked again today 26th July, no sign of QC or eggs being layed.

Should I unite ???

Patience is a virtue!

 

[shudderdun]

Thank you all, you ALL gave encouraging advice.

Gilberdyke John, you were right with your quote "Patience is a virtue" Checked today and saw eggs, prob day old and Q, after all this time !

Also thanks to Oliver and Beeno, not forgetting Finman.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Its just that I did a AS on 26th June, think Q did her mateing flight on 7th July, didnt see any eggs by 16th July, thought it wouldnt do any harm to add a frame of eggs on 16th July just to see if bees would make QC, they didnt.

Checked again today 26th July, no sign of QC or eggs being layed.

Should I unite ???

Thank you all, you ALL gave encouraging advice.

Gilberdyke John, you were right with your quote "Patience is a virtue" Checked today and saw eggs, prob day old and Q, after all this time !

It sounds about the same as one of mine.

There was a single uncapped queen cell in the middle of one of the central frames on 27th June, looked as if it was supersedure so I left it. I made a list of expected range of dates which I should have trusted, but it's easy to get twitchy and forget that bees don't always do things at the earliest possibly opportunity, they do it when they're ready.

It's also easy to panic when there's only a mixture of pollen and nectar on the brood frames, so I gave them a test frame on 12th July. When I checked it on 16th all that brood had been neatly capped, but there was still no sign of eggs on any of the other frames.

Yesterday, 29th July, there was a lovely pattern of freshly capped worker brood. Maybe the test frame persuaded the new queen that it was a good idea to start laying? Who knows!

 

[Tonych224]

Sounds like we are all having similar experiences.

I collected a swarm 2 weeks ago, they had built some comb in the cluster and there were eggs in it, I was sure I had the queen..

The bees in a P****s poly nuc are all just sat in the feeder.. They are not on any of the except the one side nearest the feeder. I placed drawn comb in there and I was expecting the queen to have started laying by now buy not a sign of her or any eggs, as mentioned all bees are just huddled in the integrated feeder and not coming out, there are a handful of bees foraging but not to any significance.

Maybe it's been too hot ??? Or maybe I was mistaken with eggs originally ? or maybe no queen ?

I can't run a test frame in as all other colonies are miles away and besides all the bees are in the feeder

Any hints?

 

[Tonych224]

Oh should have said, whilst I can unite I would really like to make them into a separate colony to hopefully take through winter, I could buy a new queen and hope / pray that there is not one in there already, so I guess question is when is it deemed safe to run a new queen in