Expected winter losses

[B+.]

I'm not overly optimistic, hives seem to have plenty of bees here but no brood the last few weeks so they'll probably struggle in spring

Why?
The workers will still be biologically young in spring because they haven't worn themselves out feeding brood

 

[foghornleghorn]

Why?
The workers will still be biologically young in spring because they haven't worn themselves out feeding brood

Hopefully your right, have never seen them finish up laying so early

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hopefully your right, have never seen them finish up laying so early

Most here stop laying every year, from mid to late August for a few weeks, just starting to brood up again now as the ivy comes into flower.

 

[birdsandbees]

I had a queen from an emergency cell hatch In mid August after the one I bought for a Q- Nuc dissapeared, after laying just a few eggs, I was worried but she's a good size, mated and they have frames rammed with brood.
Still have brood being reared in the two other colonies as well.

 

[Cussword]

I'm DEFINITELY not losing any of mine ....I've already given them a good talking to and told them they are NOT going to die ... they all agreed.

Would you please come up here and have a word with mine.

 

[Finman]

The same could have been said way back at post 5!



Although the op's question IS valid, and I've heard similar concerns from others in recent weeks. There have been reports of bad matings from different areas and there are good beekeepers who are far less bullish about the coming months than some poster's here. Time, not graphs, will tell.

I keep so much spare hives, that I need not loose my night sleeps for poorly mated queens.

 

[Into the lions den]

Actually this is quite important. We are being canvassed already by official bodies and journalists for an opinion on this, stories are being written, and policies (if any) being formulated as to how to respond to a potential lack of bees in spring.

My opinion if that losses will be highish this coming winter for a combination of reasons, not all of which are applicable to all parts of the UK. The south and east had a far kinder season than the north and west, where we almost had a whole season of cool to cold, wet, and windy weather, and the only exception fell right in the June gap. Flowers and foul weather went together all season, as did dearths and delightful weather.

Anyway...the reasoning.

1. Poor queens. It seems to be the fashion to force breeding onto the bees at an early stage of the season, and sadly anything raised between late April and the start of June is of questionable quality, many already failing. Apparently well mated laying queens becoming drone layers in as little as a month after first brood. June queens are almost universally excellent.

2. Varroa and damage caused by control methods. Many have been asking advice about varroa this year and in the last few weeks have had several beekeepers looking to buy queens, even this week, after queen loss due to the use of formic acid. Have one guy wanting to apply that and/or amitraz in the next two weeks, but in my opinion the damage may already be done.

3. Lack of young bees. The weather of the last few weeks came too late for many colonies. Their brood rearing was curtailed from late July and once it was into September it only restarted at a nominal rate.

4. Winter bees burnt out. In northern areas where there is no ivy to give a late brood rearing boost the heather flowered especially late (some areas did not START until first week of September). As brood rearing had already stopped the bees that went out and gathered the harvest were the overwintering bees that normally would have done little but store the feed and see the winter out. This activity shortens their lives quite markedly, and it remains to be seen how many bees are left alive in some colonies by the time we reach crossover day in the spring (crossover day is the point when young bees hatching starts to exceed old bees dying). Last year the bees had to do their work so late the losses in this part of Scotland were huge.

5. More than normal foraging on honeydew. Watch out for any signs of dysentery as a result.

 

[Finman]

.
This year my hives had expectionally good pollen stores when brooding stopped. Alsike clover and red clover gove high quality pollen. Weathers were good in August and September. This makes wintering easy..

Varroa things... I gove oxalic trickling last week because there very very few brood in hives. Mites dropped more and less.

And woodpeckers... I must do something... Finally!

But I am too old to worry about how bees will survive ovet winter.

If I do not learn in 50 years how to over Winter bees, nothing helps any more.
.

 

[dpearce4]

I was thinking if I get a less than 20% losses this winter it will be a good one, I just feel the weather this year has been poor for the bees.

Im hoping I am proved wrong about this.

 

[Fatbee]

Not many optimists about. I'm for once with Finman, always take a few spare colonies in to winter to allow for any drone layers or q- colonies and then simply unite back to the number I want in spring. As for worrying about bees stopping brooding early, I have learnt to trust my bees - those that get it wrong (and it's rare) simply have their genetics die out.

Chill out everybody and stop worrying!

 

[dpearce4]

Not many optimists about. I'm for once with Finman, always take a few spare colonies in to winter to allow for any drone layers or q- colonies and then simply unite back to the number I want in spring. As for worrying about bees stopping brooding early, I have learnt to trust my bees - those that get it wrong (and it's rare) simply have their genetics die out.

Chill out everybody and stop worrying!

Its ok im not worried if I lose 6-8 colonies. I will be disappointed though as I have done my best to keep them healthy. I will also be able to make up those losses quite quickly with AS and collecting swarms.

 

[Fatbee]

I will also be able to make up those losses quite quickly with AS and collecting swarms.

Indeed! The beauty of bees - you can soon get back up to number with very little cost. Not like that in stock farming

 

[Arfermo]

I don't "EXPECT" any losses but they happen!!! None for the last 4 years and the last was my fault - starvation!!

 

[pargyle]

Actually this is quite important..

My opinion if that losses will be highish this coming winter for a combination of reasons, not all of which are applicable to all parts of the UK. The south and east had a far kinder season than the north and west, where we almost had a whole season of cool to cold, wet, and windy weather, and the only exception fell right in the June gap. Flowers and foul weather went together all season, as did dearths and delightful weather.

Anyway...the reasoning. ....

Very Sound reasoning ... with the number of hives you run, the odds are stacked simply by the mathematics. Us hobbyists are fortunate insomuch as we can bee watch at close quarters and heft on a daily basis if we wish - hobbyists who let their bees starve have not really been diligent either before or during winter. There are always going to be those unexplained dead outs ... and some weak colonies going into winter that are probably doomed and should have been combined or colonies that succumb to varroa or brood disease. As a hobbyist with less than 10 hives we should be able to see the warning signs and take action to reduce the possible loss.

With the lousy season we have had every hobbyist should have been watching the winter build up of bees and stores with an eagle eye. Poly and insulated hives seem to give the bees a hand at this time of the year - and certainly the stores they put away will last them longer in an insulated environment - a slab of Kingspan (or preferably two !) on top of the crownboard will go a long way to help them.

All the factors you mention are critical but I still see more questions on here from beekeepers worrrying about the level of stores in their hives at this time of the year than about anything else and I suspect in a hard or long winter starvation is always going to be the primary cause for colony losses.

 

[Finman]

All the factors you mention are critical but I still see more questions on here from beekeepers worrrying about the level of stores in their hives at this time of the year than about anything else and I suspect in a hard or long winter starvation is always going to be the primary cause for colony losses.

- level of stores ?
- hard long winter ?
-starvation ?

Primaly case to losses is skills and "do nothing style"


Level of stores .... Feed them with sugar. Do not try to be so natural. 10 kg sugar is £ 5

Save Winter food:
- do not disturb the colony during winter sleep. Burn all stetoscopes.
- insulation
- strong colony. Do it during summer. 6 months time to do it. Change a good queen. Buy it.
- first of all: Reduce the wintering room to minimum. Do not add super under the hive.
- varroa treatment
- feed the hive full
- set ventilation proper
- mouse and woodpecker
- protect against winds and rains, select the site
- stop repeating that it is different climate.

Hard long Winter. That does not exist on British Isles.

Think about spring build up. That is as important as couple months of winter. Warm sunny place.

Yeah... Skills? If not sure, ask some experinced beek to help. Do not try all idiot advices of forum.

.

 

[fred scuttle]

Echoing Pargyles comments about the slab of Kingspan, it does seem to work well for me. You do get some funny looks at the builders merchants when they ask what size of house extension you're building and you say you're buying it to keep your bees nice and cosy

 

[pargyle]

- level of stores ?
- hard long winter ?
- starvation ?

Primarily case to losses is LACK OF skills.


Save Winter food:
- Do not disturb the colony during winter sleep.
- ADD insulation
- KEEP A strong colony. Do it during summer. 6 months time to do it. Change (TO) a good queen. (If NECESSARY) Buy it.
- First of all: Reduce the wintering room to minimum.
- Do not add super under the hive. (Unless it's full of stores)
- Varroa treatment (Well - only if they need it !)
- Feed the hive full (or make sure they have a hive full of honey).
- Set ventilation proper (No holes in Crown Board and definitely no matchsticks !)
- Mouse and woodpecker protection
- Protect against winds and rains, select the site
- Stop repeating that it is different climate.

(I think there IS a difference in climate between various regions in the UK and there are even local variations between Valleys and Highlands, Flat areas of the Eastern counties and the forested areas of the North and Midlands - Despite what you say climate DOES affect bees and their seasonality ... you only have to look at the different points that crops and other forage come into bloom to understand that it all has a bearing on the bees ability to prepare for/cope with the seasons).

Hard long Winter. That does not exist on British Isles.
You are right ... we do not have hard long winters but we do have LONG winters and we occasionally have HARD winters and they can both be disastrous for beekeepers who do not understand the need for the things you point out.


Think about spring build up. That is as important as couple months of winter. Warm sunny place.

Skills? If not sure, ask some experienced beek to help.

Do not try all idiot advice of forum (and some bee books and some internet sites).

.

Actually Finnie ... I agree with most of what you are saying ..Great post - it just needed a bit of translation.

(And I've added to ....)

 

[For want of a better word]

I guess in Finland along with the rest of the frozen Norf.... peoples is prepped up for Winter... ice tyres, mittens, snow shoes, long wooly vests and a good stock of tinned beans and vodka.... and that is just North of Watford!

Expected losses... nil.... unless the git with his tractor carries out his threat and is daft enough to run over 35 hives!


Yeghes da

 

[Stevie Day]

Echoing Pargyles comments about the slab of Kingspan, it does seem to work well for me. You do get some funny looks at the builders merchants when they ask what size of house extension you're building and you say you're buying it to keep your bees nice and cosy

I have a questions as whether to insulate or not.

The late part of winter of 2013/14 was very mild (my 1st beekeeping winter). Bees were active too early & nearly starved due to lack of forage available.

So my questions are. Does insulating the hive make the hive more susceptible to starvation?

Or should we only insulate, if experiencing harsh winter conditions?

 

[For want of a better word]

I have a questions as whether to insulate or not.

The late part of winter of 2013/14 was very mild (my 1st beekeeping winter). Bees were active too early & nearly starved due to lack of forage available.

So my questions are. Does insulating the hive make the hive more susceptible to starvation?

Or should we only insulate, if experiencing harsh winter conditions?

Polly hives with a built in high thermal insulation should be ok
anything else insulate.
Bees starve because they have used up the stores they have to keep warm
If they have to work hard to keep hive temperature up due to head losses because of low insulation properties of the box they are living in then the stores they have will be exhausted more quickly.
A colony in a well insulated hive with the same amount of stores as a leaky uninsulated draughty hive... will survive longer.
Needs to be said any colony can starve if it does not have enough stores!

no brainer really!
Feed them !

Yeghes da