Encouraging bees to take honey from supers into brood box

[bees knees]

Hello everyone
We have a couple of colonies with some honey in supers. We are thinking of skipping extraction this year. Partly this is because some of the honey is OSR and likely difficult to extract at this point anyway. How can we best encourage the bees to take this honey down into their brood boxes ready for winter?
I’m reading on another thread that we should uncap and spray with water to make it easier for the bees to get at?
Are we best moving the supers above an eke? Are we best placing them under the brood? Any other suggestions??
Thank you

 

[Boston Bees]

They really don't want to do what you want them to do, so it's not an easy ask. They want the honey to remain just where it is, which is exactly where they put it - above their heads.

There's no way to encourage them to take the honey down, as far as I know. An eke would just make them build wild comb.

Putting the super under the brood would indeed encourage them to move it up, and you could uncap it and wet it if you do this, but you are giving them a lot of work, and inviting wasps to come and rob them.

I would take the QEx off, leave the super on top for the winter, and then put the QEx back in again in spring once the queen has moved back down to lay in the brood box. But there will be other ways to do this no doubt.

 

[pargyle]

It's not something that bees will willingly do - they want their stores above the broood nest at this time of the year. Nadiring a super is something that is a bit of a fad for the last few years - I don't like it as it means you then have stores next to the entrance and it means the bees have to drop down to defend them. If you are going to do that then you need to leave it until after there are sweet feeding wasps around.

I'd be inclined to leave the super where it is and remove the queen excluder if you are on standard nationals there should be more than enough to see them through winter without feeding.

The other alternative - and you will need to wait until there is not a lot of new forage about - is to put the super above a 50mm eke with a crownboard above the eke with a very small hole in it for them to acess the super - scratch the combs in the super and there's fair chance they will treat it like it's a feeder and take it down into the brood box.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I Agree with both you could use a super if you don't have an eke, as the main flows have slowed down I've seen robbing behaviour from other colonys so I think you could do it sooner rather than later maybe even just put one or two frames in the eke above a crownboard and 10mm whole I would use some end bars from frames to rest the frames on there side and spray frames after uncapping with tepid water, you might have to spray the frames more than once.

 

[pargyle]

I Agree with both you could use a super if you don't have an eke, as the main flows have slowed down I've seen robbing behaviour from other colonys so I think you could do it sooner rather than later maybe even just put one or two frames in the eke above a crownboard and 10mm whole I would use some end bars from frames to rest the frames on there side and spray frames after uncapping with tepid water, you might have to spray the frames more than once.

The idea is that you put an eke over the top of the hive and then the crown board on top of it with a small hole and then the super you want drained.... the eke is there to create separation from the brood box so they don't consider the super above it as part of the hive. It won't work as well if you just do what you are suggesting and put the frames in an eke... But what do I know ?

 

[Finman]

B
Honey is already packed where it is.
Why heck to move it again.

In transferting bees will loose perhaps 40% out of honey's energy.

You can use super as brood box as well. No on limits that.

 

[bees knees]

Those suggesting taking the QE out and leaving the super where it is, is the idea that the q will move into the food filled super for the winter? Or simply have free rein across the 2 boxes? Our supers have drone foundation in them so could be a problem if q and brood get in there.

I’m thinking that using an eke / empty super with a crown board and small hole and then the filled super as a “feeder” might be the best option.

Nothing ever simple is it?…

 

[Finman]

Those suggesting taking the QE out and leaving the super where it is, is the idea that the q will move into the food filled super for the winter? Or simply have free rein across the 2 boxes? Our supers have drone foundation in them so could be a problem if q and brood get in there.

I’m thinking that using an eke / empty super with a crown board and small hole and then the filled super as a “feeder” might be the best option.

Nothing ever simple is it?…

Do you have one or all drone combs in supers?

If one, it is not a problem.

It is same what the queen innkate summer. You must look inside the hive, what is there and then feed sugar that it has safe food stores for winter.

 

[pargyle]

The queen won't be laying in the winter much and yes the idea is that she should have unrestricted access to the brood and the super ... it's fine and not a problem. The queen will move with the cluster which will move to the warmest part of the hive (ie - the top) and if you left a QE in there the cluster may leave her trapped with a few bees below the QE or worse still stay with her and starve with stores above them. If she lays a bit in the super it's not a problem ... I run without queen excluders all the time and it's fine.

 

[bees knees]

Do you have one or all drone combs in supers?

If one, it is not a problem.

It is same what the queen innkate summer. You must look inside the hive, what is there and then feed sugar that it has safe food stores for winter.

It’s all drone comb in the supers. Presume that’s not ideal for the brood over winter… that’s my main concern re leaving the super there as an extension of the brood box.

 

[pargyle]

It’s all drone comb in the supers. Presume that’s not ideal for the brood over winter… that’s my main concern re leaving the super there as an extension of the brood box.

If it's full of honey what's the problem - they will eat the honey and if they are not happy with the cells they will reconfigure them ... I'm not sure what you are worrying about ?

 

[bees knees]

If it's full of honey what's the problem - they will eat the honey and if they are not happy with the cells they will reconfigure them ... I'm not sure what you are worrying about ?

I’m worried that the q will only feel able to lay drones if the cluster stay mostly in the top box. When you say reconfigure - do you mean that they will make the cells smaller and so suitable for eggs destined to become workers? My knowledge is a bit sketchy here! Thanks for all your help on a Sunday evening. Love this forum. I’ll sleep better tonight with a few less bee worries on my mind

 

[pargyle]

I’m worried that the q will only feel able to lay drones if the cluster stay mostly in the top box. When you say reconfigure - do you mean that they will make the cells smaller and so suitable for eggs destined to become workers? My knowledge is a bit sketchy here! Thanks for all your help on a Sunday evening. Love this forum. I’ll sleep better tonight with a few less bee worries on my mind

Yes ... they will make the cells they want although I think the more likely thing that will happen is that they will move back down into the brood box in the spring when it gets warmer and the queen starts to lay ... they will direct the queen where they want her to lay and if that's in the brood box that's where it will be - the cluster will then remain above the new brood keeping it warm.

 

[bees knees]

I’m worried that the q will only feel able to lay drones if the cluster stay mostly in the top box. When you say reconfigure - do you mean that they will make the cells smaller and so suitable for eggs destined to become workers? My knowledge is a bit sketchy here! Thanks for all your help on a Sunday evening. Love this forum. I’ll sleep better tonight with a few less bee worries on my mind

… or should that be a few fewer worries?… who is the grammar expert here…

 

[bees knees]

Yes ... they will make the cells they want although I think the more likely thing that will happen is that they will move back down into the brood box in the spring when it gets warmer and the queen starts to lay ... they will direct the queen where they want her to lay and if that's in the brood box that's where it will be - the cluster will then remain above the new brood keeping it warm.

That sounds perfect. Thank you

 

[pargyle]

… or should that be a few fewer worries?… who is the grammar expert here…

Me ...it was beaten into me at a grammar school in Yorkshire in the 1960's ... I'm chief Grammar Policeman ...

 

[Worker bee]

Extract it and feed it back in a feeder if possible, if it won't spin out leave it on top and take the excluder off so they can mix with pollen

 

[pargyle]

Extract it and feed it back in a feeder if possible, if it won't spin out leave it on top and take the excluder off so they can mix with pollen

It's OSR honey so probably set like concrete - won't spin out.

 

[bees knees]

It's OSR honey so probably set like concrete - won't spin out.

If I leave it on the hive for them as is for the winter, do I need to uncap or spray it or will the bees find a way to eat it. Don’t want to leave them this as their winter feed then find it was too hard for them to access it. I’m presuming they can manage it or they wouldn’t collect and store it in the first place?

 

[Patrick1]

They really don't want to do what you want them to do, so it's not an easy ask. They want the honey to remain just where it is, which is exactly where they put it - above their heads.

There's no way to encourage them to take the honey down, as far as I know. An eke would just make them build wild comb.

Putting the super under the brood would indeed encourage them to move it up, and you could uncap it and wet it if you do this, but you are giving them a lot of work, and inviting wasps to come and rob them.

I would take the QEx off, leave the super on top for the winter, and then put the QEx back in again in spring once the queen has moved back down to lay in the brood box. But there will be other ways to do this no doubt.

Suppers over the crown board will encourgae tehm to take down the stores, be carefull they dont replace laying space with stores and thus reduce teh brood area too soon and die out befor winter even starts.