DWV bee on alighting board.

[TryingToLetThemBee]

So keep posting!

OK then: I think this is actually an excellent thread because most beekeepers at least think a little about whether to treat on any given occasion. Probably a higher proportion of hobbysts agonise a little and probably rather more commercials treat to a rote. Not all in either case. I think most of us would agree that beginners should probably err in the direction of being more likely to treat, especially if they have only one colony.

So an admitted thinker like you adds a lot thinking out loud like this.

For me, with the new research on DWV, the chance that any given colony might not need treating is now seen to be higher (IMO) because there is less need to invoke hygienic bees and there are seen to be "good" DWV infections that are best left undisturbed, ie untreated (as others I am sure will point out, this is a complex and developing area: eg the MITES concerned still have DWV "A").

But if we treat everything, we'll never give the good equilibriums a chance, as the non-treaters on here point out. But by definition a "real" (symptomatic) DWV infection is a bad thing and probably rules out a "good" infection. I don't know whether one DWV bee indicates that (but would guess not) but a lot of them would, and I think the cost to anything of treating in that situation is pretty limited. You are by definition not harming a good equilibrium. So I try to treat varroosis (bad DWV symptoms, not just the odd victim) and not mites.

It's really your call whether you have a bad case of DWV or the odd victim. (But see above re beginners.)

Just my 2¢.

 

[bjosephd]

Thanks TryingToLetThemBe,

I think it's a fascinating and very nuanced issue and discussion, and I think you've highlighted it's complexity well.

I think you make a good point about treating varroatosis and not simply treating mite presence per se. Of course if you have a hive chock full of mites but no symptoms, then in theory you have no problem - your bees are tough and resistant.

BUT you also make a good point, that if the colony are not demonstrating themselves to be varroa toughened then it might be well worth treating them to knock the mites back a peg or two.

Is it worth losing a colony to? Probably not... at least if I have a living, albeit treated, colony then they can help raise the brood of a new potentially resistant (re)queen.

Far more efficient and economical to bring in new genetics to a running hive than have to reboot with the entire thing with a new nuc or recovered swarm.

So I like your thoughts... look out for symptoms and treat if they don't seem like they are tolerating the mites.

I think you very much touch on the next stage of dealing with the problem. Varroa are a vector, it's what they carry or what they weaken the bees to be more susceptible to that is the problem. Maybe the mites are a distraction.

In relation to humans... Should we be killing mosquitos or dealing with malaria. We will never kill all the mosquitos... and if we try, we will only be creating selective pressure to create mega super mosquitos to spread the malaria we haven't addressed. BUT if you catch malaria, treat it and avoid mosquitos!

 

[Millet]

That's a little unfair... I've answered a good few of your posts directly, one of which I referred to that very suggestion of yours of vaping when I said...

"My very handy mate is tempted to construct a sublimator so I might very well still be doing exactly what you say!" (post #21)

I don't think you're either clueless or being ignored. It's a fair suggestion, just not the only option... we have also broached the topic of the implications of treating for varroa in the long term (see posts #12, #25, #26).

I try to keep as engaged as possible with threads that I start, but often they quite fairly take on a life of their own and I can't answer every post or continue to chair the entire discussion. I do like these discussions though, wherever the conversation leads...

Sorry to anyone who feels ignored. I read everything and value everyone's thoughts and suggestions. So keep posting!

I'm sorry if that came across or you feel that it is a little unfair, i will not comment anymore as i have a habit of putting my foot in it anyway, the best of luck with whatever route you take.

 

[bjosephd]

Don't worry Millet, I don't feel got at... it's a jolly discussion at the end of the day... it's only bees. Tricky with text only... if it was in a pub it would have just been a debate between rounds. I just thought you must have missed my engagement with your comments.

We're all putting our feet or other appendages in it now and again however hard we all try... feel free to comment.

I just didn't want anyone to feel they were being ignored. I value your comments. Please feel free to continue to comment.

 

[beeno]

... also a few bees with K-wing - which suggested tracheal mites.

Acarine or tracheal mite infested bees show no outward signs. The signs of the so called 'Isle of Wight Disease' is now thought to be due to secondary infection of Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus (Type 1) (Bailey and others).