Drone laying Queens and after 38 years the secret of beekeeping!

[zippy573]

First check of my bees and i found 2 out of 10 hives with drone laying queens, something i have not seen that often over 38 years of small scale beekeeping. Both had capped queen cells which i assume would be viable? Given this is the earliest i have checked my bees, it got me wondering if bees are more capable of sorting themselves out if left long enough once the queen becomes a drone layer than i previously thought? ie she starts laying in late winter immediately lays drone only but has one or two fertile eggs left in her so the bees can produce a viable queen which by the time of a normal first inspection has started to lay. Having a queen suddenly and with no warning turn into a drone layer is one hell of a genetic defect! Just a thought? I look forward to be shot down.

As to the secret of beekeeping, last September I found one of my hives on its side and thought possibly vandals, however, on returning with my kit i discovered that it had been knocked off its stand by a large falling branch. The storm which would have done this was 9 days before, the bees had had to defend 2 very large areas (roof and floor had both come away) from robbing for all that time and there was a lot of evidence of robbing. Anyhow roll forward to this season and this hive is by far and away the strongest, with c10 frames of bs broad not at all bad for late March.

 

[Boston Bees]

First check of my bees and i found 2 out of 10 hives with drone laying queens, something i have not seen that often over 38 years of small scale beekeeping. Both had capped queen cells which i assume would be viable? Given this is the earliest i have checked my bees, it got me wondering if bees are more capable of sorting themselves out if left long enough once the queen becomes a drone layer than i previously thought? ie she starts laying in late winter immediately lays drone only but has one or two fertile eggs left in her so the bees can produce a viable queen which by the time of a normal first inspection has started to lay. Having a queen suddenly and with no warning turn into a drone layer is one hell of a genetic defect! Just a thought? I look forward to be shot down.

As to the secret of beekeeping, last September I found one of my hives on its side and thought possibly vandals, however, on returning with my kit i discovered that it had been knocked off its stand by a large falling branch. The storm which would have done this was 9 days before, the bees had had to defend 2 very large areas (roof and floor had both come away) from robbing for all that time and there was a lot of evidence of robbing. Anyhow roll forward to this season and this hive is by far and away the strongest, with c10 frames of bs broad not at all bad for late March.

If you have a queen laying nothing but drones then that queen cell contains a drone, IMHO. Or a dead bee. Or nothing.

I've seen queen cells in laying worker hives too. Desperate bees will try anything.

Check in a week but get ready to shake out.

 

[GuyNir]

Bees producing viable Q before first inspection? No drones for the Q to mate with, unless it’s a very late first inspection...

 

[zippy573]

Bees producing viable Q before first inspection? No drones for the Q to mate with, unless it’s a very late first inspection...

Hasn't the drone laying queen hive (in my case 2 hives plus other similar in area) produce a fair few?

 

[zippy573]

If you have a queen laying nothing but drones then that queen cell contains a drone, IMHO. Or a dead bee. Or nothing.

I've seen queen cells in laying worker hives too. Desperate bees will try anything.

Check in a week but get ready to shake out.

That may well be the case, I have already shaken one as they are evil sods, was going to squash and unite that one as had enough of them in any case.

 

[GuyNir]

Hasn't the drone laying queen hive (in my case 2 hives plus other similar in area) produce a fair few?

My understanding is the Q flies further away, to mate with unrelated drones. You also normally need many mature drones for successful mating.
so early in the season, this isn’t a viable option IMO.

 

[Fiona in South View]

How can one tell the difference between drone laying queen and laying worker? I have a colony where laying pattern ok, some capped worker, but also a lot of capped drone and double egg laying

 

[Erichalfbee]

Never seen laying workers ( there are lots not just one) this time of year.
DLQ brood is in a regular solid pattern. Failing queen you see drone brood dotted around amongst worker brood
Laying workers.... drone brood dotted about everywhere no worker brood. May be multiple eggs in cells and if there are there are lots.

 

[hemo]

A DLQ will lay usually in a regular pattern, LW's can be a few, they leave a more pepper pot brood pattern.

Dani beat me to it.

 

[hemo]

How can one tell the difference between drone laying queen and laying worker? I have a colony where laying pattern ok, some capped worker, but also a lot of capped drone and double egg laying

You have a laying Q, sounds like she may be failing.

 

[GuyNir]

Laying worker in action (skip to ~5min into the video)

 

[Beegarden]

Laying worker in action (skip to ~5min into the video)

Sad, but good to watch. IMHO, though, the fence between her garden, the bees and next door is quite low!

 

[Ian123]

If you have a queen laying nothing but drones then that queen cell contains a drone, IMHO. Or a dead bee. Or nothing.

I've seen queen cells in laying worker hives too. Desperate bees will try anything.

Check in a week but get ready to shake out.

He’s right, no good will come from those cells

 

[LeaBees]

Never seen laying workers ( there are lots not just one) this time of year.
DLQ brood is in a regular solid pattern. Failing queen you see drone brood dotted around amongst worker brood
Laying workers.... drone brood dotted about everywhere no worker brood. May be multiple eggs in cells and if there are there are lots.

How young can a queen be to fail? Can a 1yr old queen go from decent brood laying to failing overnight (or overwinter)?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How young can a queen be to fail? Can a 1yr old queen go from decent brood laying to failing overnight (or overwinter)?

Yes, there is no lower or upper limit, queens can last only a few months or quite a few years

 

[B+.]

Yes, there is no lower or upper limit, queens can last only a few months or quite a few years

This is an excellent point which I completely agree with - allow new queens to lay a proper brood nest. If people weren't in so much hurry, more queens might be accepted.

EDIT: Here's another clip that argues the same point for people who like references.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This is an excellent point which I completely agree with - allow new queens to lay a proper brood nest. If people weren't in so much hurry, more queens might be accepted.

EDIT: Here's another clip that argues the same point for people who like references.

Thanks Paul. Excellent advice