Double brood +

[Erichalfbee]

Is that a problem?

No
How heavy is a Lang deep full of brood/stores?

 

[bjosephd]

No
How heavy is a Lang deep full of brood/stores?

Haha.. that is a fair point! Maybe I should have gone for 8 frame Langs instead.

I'll let you know!

(I imagine really @£$%ing heavy)

(and yes Goran... what size boxes are your BBs?)

 

[domino]

(p.s. gone BACK to nationals? What format did you philander with before returning?)

12x14s - you can get pine nationals as well which is handy for the Rose method. It's the single size box approach I like, I guess it doesn't really matter what box it is.

 

[Michael Palmer]

No
How heavy is a Lang deep full of brood/stores?

85-90lbs when full of honey

 

[Goran]

What size Lang, Goran?

Lang deep

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

At £40 for an empty National BB the whole hobby would be prohibitively expensive for me

goodness - was that in teak and french polished? £14.50 a piece, second quality cedar in Maisie's sale

 

[bjosephd]

goodness - was that in teak and french polished? £14.50 a piece, second quality cedar in Maisie's sale

Ha, nope, just cedar...

Hmm... well that's better... I only found their cedar BB with frames seems to be £67.21. Thorne's cedar box £42. But now I see Maisie's cheaper ones...

I have actually managed to find a cedar BS BB from ML for £12 in the sale, which I have recklessly purchased for curiosity's sake! So it might go on top of the current National... but I still find the construction of the BBs and the frames a faff compared to the Lang frames and boxes.

I understand none of this is black and white... but ALL things considered I chose Langs... as I had to go with something in the end! Seems maybe there's not much in it in the end... but each to their own... maybe I'll regret by mid season... watch this space!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I understand none of this is black and white... but ALL things considered I chose Langs... as I had to go with something in the end! Seems maybe there's not much in it in the end... but each to their own... maybe I'll regret by mid season... watch this space!

Doubt you'll regret it - it was a toss up with me to be honest and I had a second think when I decided to have a few more hives than the wife knew about I could have changed then as it wouldn't have been too much of an expense but I've too much money tied up in that format now but the truth is, I like nationals and they seem to suit the bees I keep.

 

[bjosephd]

Nationals are a better looking hive... nicer looking carpentry... and have good 'handle bars'.

I'll probably still be in a position at the end of this coming season to make a judgement on the format I use... I'm also going for ease of use and construction... keeping the bees alive seems enough of a job without the rest being 'cheap' and easy.

Come on spring!

 

[Erichalfbee]

85-90lbs when full of honey

Thanks, Michael.
That's a lot to lift if you're having to look into the box below.

Does anybody keep their bees in Jumbo Langs?

 

[Madge]

...
That's a lot to lift if you're having to look into the box below. ...

But you don't have to lift the whole box all at once. Remove some frames into another box until the top box of light enough for you to lift. That's what I do.

 

[alldigging]

But you don't have to lift the whole box all at once. Remove some frames into another box until the top box of light enough for you to lift. That's what I do.

And then do you handle them again like that to get them either into the house or the car to take them away to be extracted?

I'd be worried there's too many opportunities for bees to find where you're taking it. Especially if you leave a bee in and then let it out at your back door.

 

[Madge]

And then do you handle them again like that to get them either into the house or the car to take them away to be extracted?
...

No, I meant in order to inspect the lower box in a double-brood set-up - so I'm not talking about honey supers (whether deep or shallow ones).

Ps- but I might again have misunderstood Erica's post - in which case: sorry again!

Pps - but even if it's a honey super that I can't lift, I'll do it like that. Actually, in that case, I quickly put the honey frames in a correx nucleus box and make sure there are no bees in the box.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If it's just inspection, surely you just need to tilt the top box far enough to have a look at the bottom bars?

 

[Michael Palmer]

Thanks, Michael.
That's a lot to lift if you're having to look into the box below.

Not necessary to lift the box. Tip it up, rotate 90˚, and stand it up off to one side of the bottom box...exposing several combs in the bottom box. Then inspect those combs. At the same time you can inspect the combs in the top...from the bottom...like the pages of a book. While you can't inspect the brood in the top box for disease or pattern quality...you look at the brood in the bottom box...you can separate the combs and see if there is worker brood and if the bees have started cells....cups with eggs or young larvae, or sealed cells, etc.

You don't even have to pick the box up when moving it over to one side or back into position. Tip it up and walk it over.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Not necessary to lift the box. Tip it up, rotate 90˚, and stand it up off to one side of the bottom box...exposing several combs in the bottom box. Then inspect those combs. At the same time you can inspect the combs in the top...from the bottom...like the pages of a book. While you can't inspect the brood in the top box for disease or pattern quality...you look at the brood in the bottom box...you can separate the combs and see if there is worker brood and if the bees have started cells....cups with eggs or young larvae, or sealed cells, etc.

You don't even have to pick the box up when moving it over to one side or back into position. Tip it up and walk it over.

Excellent.....the words of an expert.
You don't want a short term apprentice over there in Vermont?.....when the snow's gone, of course.
There's a St Albans there, isn't there?
My sister lives in St Albans in Hertfordshire. I'd feel right at home

 

[Madge]

I'll try to do the tilting or even tip-up this summer. Until now I've been too nervous that the box will slip off onto the ground or frames tumble out, to try it. I can see that it will save a lot of time.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Once you loosen the top box, slide it back an inch and then tip up. It won't slide off the front of the hive.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Practice which I learn and maintain:
After last harvest, I reorganize brood nest. QE are going out, brood box goes on top, super ( same size box) below, there is always some honey in super. Bees are taking it relative fast above and form honey arches. Majority of cluster is in upper box as the brood ( queen it that time of year don't go down, since she is reducing the laying).
In spring, first time when taking frames in hands: since I have below left only 8 frames, lift below two frames of sealed brood and right next to brood frames above two foundations.
Next when they fill the upper box (8 frames of brood full with bees in upper box), I change positions of boxes and instal QE ( framed with entrance): now queen is below with open brood, foundations, some drawn comb; all sealed brood above QE.
When there is no possibility that they can raise queen from brood above qe ( there is always some odd cell with open brood among sealed brood), I instal third box. That third box goes in second position ( right above QE). Then again I lift mainly sealed brood above QE in that box, few frames with food, foundations, surplus of drawn combs. In the top box is sealed brood which was before last shift right above QE, with most filled food frames. In bb below QE is again queen with few frames with youngest brood, foundations, of food frames I leave only at first and tenth position with lot of pollen and honey.
When I finish that I should have from 12-16 frames of brood through all the hive in three boxes about 20 days before main forage. Usually I don't make any drastic operation further if all goes in a way ( next larger operations goes after main flow). Basically I was removing sealed brood away from the BB and making space for the queen and giving lot of work to young bees..

I don't say this is perfect or best solution. It is just my practice.

Fogot, we have carnies.. Always on the edge of swarming. Some improvement I accomplished with queen rearing by myself and in exchange with stock of my mentor. But some can't wait to swarm, no matter what you do before ( these ones I exclude).

Goran, I think I understand you. If so, is that very similar to a Demaree operation?

 

[Michael Palmer]

Excellent.....the words of an expert.
You don't want a short term apprentice over there in Vermont?.....when the snow's gone, of course.
There's a St Albans there, isn't there?
My sister lives in St Albans in Hertfordshire. I'd feel right at home

There is a St. Albans, Vermont. That's where I live. There are other states with a St. Albans...I was born in St. Albans, New York....a village in New York City.

We have a steady stream of interns, from all over the place. If you would like to come spend time with us, you would be welcome. Timing would depend on just what it was you wanted to see/do.