Double brood +

[Hivemaker.]

An inspection of the upper box is all I do, unless I find charged cells, never had swarm cells in only the lower box.

Yes, the same here, not very often they build them in the lower box here either.

 

[domino]

No need - just tilt the top box and look at the bottom bars of it's frames - no need to go any further unless you find something untowards.

I didn't believe this, but last year I run double brood and checked every frame only to come to the conclusion that this works most of the time.

I also clip my queens ... just in case.

 

[snelgrove]

On the bottom of the top box is what I meant try keeping bees here it's not southern England

 

[Hivemaker.]

I also clip my queens ... just in case.

Also one of our first jobs during the spring inspections.

 

[Hivemaker.]

On the bottom of the top box is what I meant try keeping bees here it's not southern England

But the original poster, the one we are trying to offer advise to, IS in the south of England, the same county as me in fact, but still depends on how prolific his bees are really.

 

[bjosephd]

I am indeed in the South... only about 45 miles from you Hive Maker.

And as to how prolific my bees are...? That's anyone's guess until they get their spring on. They might be un-reproductive and swarmy for all I know, and hoping to get them into more than one brood box might already be destined to be a farcical idea.

Maybe I'll have to drive down for a queen or two of yours some time!

 

[Vortex]

I'm in the south as well, and run brood+half Langstroth.
I find the "cells under the top brood box" works in 90% of cases for swarm control if I'm in a hurry.
I went into this winter with 2 colonies on brood+half+super because there were too many bees to shut them down any further at the end of October.
Both still appear to be doing fine - although I've had to feed them small amounts of fondant throughout. Both were running 8 frames brood in the BB and 7 frames brood in the half through most of last year.
If I want to get new brood frames drawn then the new brood super goes above the half or preferably I get a support colony, half width boxes, to draw it then move it.
If the bees decide they're going to sit in the half brood and not move down, which I had a couple do last year then I just swap the boxes over, putting the half underneath, until they have 4 frames laid then swap them back. You can also do this if you want to replace 3 or 4 frames in the BB, as they draw quicker and more evenly with the BB above.

 

[bjosephd]

I went into this winter with 2 colonies on brood+half+super because there were too many bees to shut them down any further at the end of October.

Would it not then be easier to go double brood then? Then you have more frame interchangeability and a brood+half+super sounds suspiciously like double brood but a rather a faff?

Double brood not easier all round?

But I'm very much a newbee so you certainly know a hell of a lot more than me! But just based on my various nerdy readings and research - but I am well aware that virtual forum beekeeping doesn't qualify me for much.

I'm attempting a one size box approach this season (until I learn through potential bitter experience that it's a mistake!).

Thanks

B

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Would it not then be easier to go double brood then? Then you have more frame interchangeability and a brood+half+super sounds suspiciously like double brood but a rather a faff?

Double brood not easier all round?

But I'm very much a newbee

B

Might be a newbee, but you're learning fast

Scary thing this looking and thinking init

 

[snelgrove]

The thing is a single national brood box is to small for the vast majority of queens these days, therefore brood and a half or double brood is necessary, brood and a half is rather a sloppy method, one that I used alot. Double brood in this part of the country results in little ho ey crop. I prefer 14 x12, so I would recommend you go for a bigger hive than a standard national

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm in the south as well, and run brood+half Langstroth.

Would it not then be easier to go double brood then?

That would be BIG colony

 

[bjosephd]

I prefer 14 x12, so I would recommend you go for a bigger hive than a standard national

I agree. Which is why I'm going Langstroth. (which today's Mann Lake order painfully demonstrates... but all things considered - a billy bargain)

The National was my very first hive, and I got it as I was persuaded that Nationals are the only way to go. I wonder if the UK's Nationals will slowly dwindle - not least because Nationals are small and a pain in the backside to put together. (but they do have nice big sidebar handles).

 

[bjosephd]

That would be BIG colony

Is that a problem?

 

[Swarm]

Is that a problem?

Not if they remain gentle

 

[domino]

I wonder if the UK's Nationals will slowly dwindle - not least because Nationals are small and a pain in the backside to put together. (but they do have nice big sidebar handles).

I've just gone back to Nationals using the Rose method.

 

[Goran]

We use langs, as I learned from my mentor - one bb too little, two bb one too many..

 

[bjosephd]

I've just gone back to Nationals using the Rose method.

Yes... I found his book very interesting, but didn't want to go to some semi-obscure format. So I can see why you are doing it with Nationals.

The fact I can get a langstroth BB with frames for £20 was a clincher for me (albeit pine).

And both frames and boxes are so much easier to construct than National frames and boxes.

At £40 for an empty National BB the whole hobby would be prohibitively expensive for me

Think I might re-read his book actually... it's only short.

(p.s. gone BACK to nationals? What format did you philander with before returning?)

 

[bjosephd]

We use langs, as I learned from my mentor - one bb too little, two bb one too many..

Is that little saying regarding Nationals?

And what actually happens if you have 'too many'?

Surely it's not disastrous (aside from having an extra box to deal with)? At worst you might lose a bit of your honey harvest?

 

[Goran]

Is that little saying regarding Nationals?

And what actually happens if you have 'too many'?

Surely it's not disastrous (aside from having an extra box to deal with)? At worst you might lose a bit of your honey harvest?

Practice which I learn and maintain:
After last harvest, I reorganize brood nest. QE are going out, brood box goes on top, super ( same size box) below, there is always some honey in super. Bees are taking it relative fast above and form honey arches. Majority of cluster is in upper box as the brood ( queen it that time of year don't go down, since she is reducing the laying).
In spring, first time when taking frames in hands: since I have below left only 8 frames, lift below two frames of sealed brood and right next to brood frames above two foundations.
Next when they fill the upper box (8 frames of brood full with bees in upper box), I change positions of boxes and instal QE ( framed with entrance): now queen is below with open brood, foundations, some drawn comb; all sealed brood above QE.
When there is no possibility that they can raise queen from brood above qe ( there is always some odd cell with open brood among sealed brood), I instal third box. That third box goes in second position ( right above QE). Then again I lift mainly sealed brood above QE in that box, few frames with food, foundations, surplus of drawn combs. In the top box is sealed brood which was before last shift right above QE, with most filled food frames. In bb below QE is again queen with few frames with youngest brood, foundations, of food frames I leave only at first and tenth position with lot of pollen and honey.
When I finish that I should have from 12-16 frames of brood through all the hive in three boxes about 20 days before main forage. Usually I don't make any drastic operation further if all goes in a way ( next larger operations goes after main flow). Basically I was removing sealed brood away from the BB and making space for the queen and giving lot of work to young bees..

I don't say this is perfect or best solution. It is just my practice.

Fogot, we have carnies.. Always on the edge of swarming. Some improvement I accomplished with queen rearing by myself and in exchange with stock of my mentor. But some can't wait to swarm, no matter what you do before ( these ones I exclude).

 

[Erichalfbee]

We use langs, as I learned from my mentor - one bb too little, two bb one too many..

What size Lang, Goran?