Dominator, Steward, Partner, Participant?

[Beeforest]

 

[Ziggymole]

As I have yet to set up and start keeping bees I am not even going to attempt to comment on the styles of beekeeping. What I will say is that WE ARE ALL HUMAN, and not one of us will fit into a category, we will all have unique combinations of personality traits, temper, ethics, experience, politics etc.

I would like to place myself between "Partner" and "Participant" but know full well that I enjoy the fruits of the "Dominator" when it comes to the weekly shopping trip! It's not that I care any less for the sheep, pigs and hens it's about economics.

David Heaf has put forward an interesting philosophy though.
Jan

 

[Beeforest]

As I have yet to set up and start keeping bees I am not even going to attempt to comment on the styles of beekeeping. What I will say is that WE ARE ALL HUMAN, and not one of us will fit into a category, we will all have unique combinations of personality traits, temper, ethics, experience, politics etc.

I would like to place myself between "Partner" and "Participant" but know full well that I enjoy the fruits of the "Dominator" when it comes to the weekly shopping trip! It's not that I care any less for the sheep, pigs and hens it's about economics.

David Heaf has put forward an interesting philosophy though.
Jan

Hi Ziggymole, I agree with your comments above.
Have you been able to find a beekeeper to shadow before you get your bees? I know this helped me a great deal!

 

[Cazza]

Cazza, you can't be serious about your age 7 tonsilectomy being the best thing in your life? A bit of poetic licence perhaps?

We did keep a few surgeons in business back in the 50's though. I well remember the ice cream and announcing that I could swallow peas whole now! I don't suppose that it did me any harm and I had been dogged by sore throats.

At age 7,not in my life as a whole. I'm not that sad!
Not the 50's but the 70's. Ice cream was sadly not part of the recovery process. It was hard toast to clear the throat. It hurt so much I cried but stoically finished the toast.
c

 

[DanBee]

There are two types of people, one of them looks for reasons to divide others into groups.

Which reminded me of: There are 10 types of people, those who count in binary and those who do not

 

[DanBee]

I think David Heaf might be being deliberately provocative with his choice of beekeepers characteristics, with the view slightly skewed to his own opinion

Fine!
but note the emotion and bias you have put to your categories compared to the ones I have written.

I remember the article from when it popped up in Beekeeper's Quarterly... since then it has appeared in quite a number of places. I was tickled by how non-judgemental the author professed to be, yet even the category names showed an explicit saint/sinner bias which "Type A,B,C,D" would have avoided, and this got me wondering about how balanced the portrait of each type was. A bit of trivial word analysis revealed an interesting aspect. Treating the four categories as a continuum between what the author clearly believes are "ethical" and "non ethical" stances, two distinct features popped out:

• one end receives half the wordage of the other end in their descriptions;
• one end is full of negative words/phrases, the other positive words/phrases

Yes, it's the "dominator" that gets half the words, predominantly negative, whilst "participant" gets twice the words, predominantly positive.

It got me thinking about the ethics of writing about ethics...

 

[DanBee]

I feel I can only make a judgement about the management of the hives / methodologies if I have actually done it!

"Before you criticise a man, try walking a mile in his shoes. That way, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes..."

 

[Beeforest]

Yes, it's the "dominator" that gets half the words, predominantly negative, whilst "participant" gets twice the words, predominantly positive.

It got me thinking about the ethics of writing about ethics...

I hear what you are saying and don't totally disagree. In Heaf's book he ascribes the same length of text to each group. The fact that I was more lengthy in my descriptions as I continued through from D to P was a failing in my ability for succinct writing more than anything else.

As far as the two groups of people wheeze. At least yours is assuming.
Give me 101 Bro!

 

[DanBee]

BF - the full text of the article is available on David Heaf's website, and it was from there that I did the word counting etc, not from your precis.

 

[mbc]

I find the concept of some beekeepers believing themselves to be somehow better for not using frames, nadiring, letting their bees swarm and harvesting little if any honey laughable.

 

[Brosville]

Carry on laughing.... - I've met David, he's a charming and articulate chap who is passionate about his subject - the rather snide attacks on him and his methods ("word counting" indeed!) are pretty par for the course......
Someone will probably find his taste in trousering wrong next..........

It's not a question of "thinking ourselves superior", or any similar slur - it's just that some of us are trying to keep bees a little differently to the methods which have remained relatively unaltered for some 150 years, much of the area of experimentation being in trying to allow the bees as much freedom to behave as naturally as possible - which may well involve such heresies as giving honey harvest other than the top priority, and allowing natural swarming and comb building - David himself has christened it "apicentric" beekeeping - putting the bees' interests first.....

 

[Chris Luck]

I find the concept of some beekeepers believing themselves to be somehow better for not using frames, nadiring, letting their bees swarm and harvesting little if any honey laughable.

No more laughable than any other approach that leaves the keeper "believing themselves to be somehow better" or "right".

Chris

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Carry on laughing.... - I've met David, he's a charming and articulate chap who is passionate about his subject - the rather snide attacks on him and his methods ("word counting" indeed!) are pretty par for the course......
Someone will probably find his taste in trousering wrong next..........

Trousers! how conformist and unnatural is that -should be wearing a kaftan or a kilt - much more sustainable!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I find the concept of some beekeepers believing themselves to be somehow better for not using frames, nadiring, letting their bees swarm and harvesting little if any honey laughable.

No more laughable than any other approach that leaves the keeper "believing themselves to be somehow better" or "right".

Chris

Most of us don't we just keep bees and are open to suggestions: it seems to be that it's mostly the 'natural' lot who shout they are right and the rest are wrong (I'll keep on using my methods 'cos I like it and the bees don't seem to mind - doesn't mean I think everyone else is wrong - just misguided )
and BTW my sister had her tonsils out in 1992 and i was told i should have them out in 1997 but i refused in case it spoiled my singing voice.

 

[Brosville]

"seems to be that it's mostly the 'natural' lot who shout they are right and the rest are wrong" - is actually completely wrong - witness this thread, and the ludicrous lengths to which people will go to try to discredit (more) natural beekeeping - in my experience, it isn't us lot claiming "ours is the one and only true way"..........

 

[psafloyd]

"seems to be that it's mostly the 'natural' lot who shout they are right and the rest are wrong" - is actually completely wrong - witness this thread, and the ludicrous lengths to which people will go to try to discredit (more) natural beekeeping - in my experience, it isn't us lot claiming "ours is the one and only true way"..........

I'd agree with that. Orthodoxy in the UK is represented by frame-based beekeeping, largely in wooden, national boxes.

I don't have a problem with that, as I keep on these as well, but am interested in alternatives, as one size does not fit all. And I'm talking about the bees as well as the keepers there.

 

[victor meldrew]

Problem with 'Natural Beekeeping' in this over crowded island is that the welfare of the bees is overlooked in the quest to appear clean, green and benevolent !
The modern Brit is addicted to the computer, indoor pursuits , anything that can be conducted in a cosseted environment !
When confronted with a swarm of bees , indeed a single fly ! PANIC!!!! out with the insecticide, flame thrower . What ever it takes to get rid of these alien beasties !
We can no longer pretend that we exist in the garden of Eden . The urban sprawl, the modern farming practices , exotic pests/diseases , means the poor hopeful swarms followed by cast after cast ,stand little or no chance of fulfilling their goal of going forth and multiplying! They are cast onto the sacrificial altar of 'Leave alone Beekeeping' .
May I suggest that anyone truly interested in the 'natural 'side scheme of things , simply leave beekeeping alone entirely rather than subjecting the bees to the horrors of having to (and failing miserably) fend for themselves in such a hostile environment ?
VM

 

[Brosville]

" simply leave beekeeping alone entirely rather than subjecting the bees to the horrors of having to (and failing miserably) fend for themselves in such a hostile environment" - if we take that at it's face value, it doesn't augur well for the fate of all life on earth - I will agree that we as a species are doing the most dreadful things to the environment, and it indeed makes it harder for feral bees to survive, BUT we must face the fact that both feral and "domesticated" bees have to live in the same "outdoors" - I'm all for feral bees "taking their chance" to live completely naturally, and it shows that they can survive without man's intervention -
I'm most heartened to find that a hollow tree in a nearby field is occupied by feral bees, and suspect they'll do fine unless killed off by "spray drift". Not everyone is surrounded by phillistines - out here in the backwoods of Sussex my neighbours tend to be of the "wow, a swarm of bees, isn't that marvellous" persuasion - if things need to change, it's certainly not beekeepers trying to find a better, gentler way of keeping them, but the idiocy of turning the countryside into "green concrete" by "bludgeon nature into submission" techniques, and the public need to know how they can help all pollinators survive (including planting the right plants, and binning the "icides")

Bees survived for millions of years without our intervention..........sadly it looks like our "civilisation" may end that

 

[Chris Luck]

Not everyone in the UK lives in the situation you describe VM.

There are organic farms and vast areas of open countryside and bees are, although it may surprise you, a native wild insect and long may they remain so. If some don't make it that's the way of things and long may it last, and let's face it, they are only insects, not cuddly toys.

As for the state of the masses you describe..... politeness forbids that I comment when children may read this forum.

Chris

 

[victor meldrew]

Not everyone in the UK lives in the situation you describe VM.
As for the state of the masses you describe..... politeness forbids that I comment when children may read this forum.
Chris

Surely you're not that short of expletives that you can't comment without having to resort to rudeness??
VM