Dominator, Steward, Partner, Participant?

[Beeforest]

Having ready David Heaf's Bee-Friendly Beekeeper recently one of the more interesting ideas he explains is four possible moral stances to nature and that of beekeeping.
He does not say that one is more defensibly ethical than any other and that we as beekeepers have a free choice to place ourselves anywhere on the spectrum between Dominator to Participant.
I feel that this attitude could go a long way to explaining the stances people have taken on this site and with other beeks I know when criticising others' methodology.
I will briefly summarise the four views:

Dominator
Holds that nature is for supporting the human race.
Maximum profit, utility is sought.
Genetics of bees modified by any technique profitable.
Greatest control sought over bees, queen clipping, synthetic acaricides.
Take as much honey as possible.
Pursue pollination contracts - move bees many miles.

Steward
Sees himself as entrusted with the use of nature, endorses a duty of care.
Breeding sought to increase production.
Recognises that human interests have to yield to avoid putting nature out of joint.
Conventional beekeeping techniques, frames, swarm control, inspection for disease, non synthetic acaricides etc
Movement of bees short distances timed with nectar flow.

Partner
Regards animals as potential allies.
Nature is an interplay of different life forms - each with value.
Exploitation can occur as long as animal is not unnaturally forced. Exploitation may even have benefit.
Willing to accept lower profits for bee friendlier conditions
Queen building in mini nuclei but no lab genetic modification
May or may not use frames, QE
Inspection to a minimum
Allows healthy drone populations
Bees wintered on a fair amount of their own honey
Formic acid organic varroa control used
Works with natural swarming process intervening to make splits when time is ripe.

Participant
Mankind is integrated within nature so sets limits to man's intervention in nature.
Use natural processes as much as possible.
Bee keeping is centred on the bees and to their contribution to the local area.
Works with locally adapted bees.
Likes to harvest honey but will forego this if it means taking it and feeding sugar.
Natural comb only, no QE, nadiring supers,
Natural swarming - bait hives used.
No chemicals Varroa policy of co adaptation and co-evolution

Please note that I have mentioned 4 distinct views, in truth though this is a spectrum and many people would lie between two views.
David Heaf cites that Manley would probably be in the gap between Dominator and Steward.

So maybe if you have time have a think about where you may sit on this spectrum.
Maybe for all of us it's good to understand where others may be and that this will reflect their particular stance.

Sorry for the lengthy post

 

[Rosti]

Interesting post and one for which (what ever some may say later in this thread) there is no common perspective or 'right' answer, only your answer.

For what it's worth :- somewhere between Steward and Partner, tending to Steward. This has the makings of a survey, we haven't had one for a while.

 

[RoofTops]

Sweet ideas but based on a few presumptions I think. For example, and I am playing Devil's Advocate here, what about a 5th category?

Reckless

Believes the bees will do perfectly with minimum intervention from Man but prefers to keep them in a container rather than releasing them into the wild.
Does not inspect hives so risks becoming a pool of disease.
Allows natural swarming and does not care if neighbours have to spend money getting rid of bees from places such as chimneys.
Rarely gets a honey crop as the bees are forever swarming and struggling under a high varroa load, but does not care as the bees "are good for nature".
Xenophobic approach to bee races - foreign has to be bad.
Does not practice any sort of controlled queen breeding.
Keeps highly defensive bees but as the beekeeper does not inspect the colonies this is not an issue.
Ignores any advice which does not meet their presumptions of how bees should be kept.
Shuns local beekeeping association.

 

[Beeforest]

Sweet ideas but based on a few presumptions I think. For example, and I am playing Devil's Advocate here, what about a 5th category?

Reckless

Believes the bees will do perfectly with minimum intervention from Man but prefers to keep them in a container rather than releasing them into the wild.
Does not inspect hives so risks becoming a pool of disease.
Allows natural swarming and does not care if neighbours have to spend money getting rid of bees from places such as chimneys.
Rarely gets a honey crop as the bees are forever swarming and struggling under a high varroa load, but does not care as the bees "are good for nature".
Xenophobic approach to bee races - foreign has to be bad.
Does not practice any sort of controlled queen breeding.
Keeps highly defensive bees but as the beekeeper does not inspect the colonies this is not an issue.
Ignores any advice which does not meet their presumptions of how bees should be kept.
Shuns local beekeeping association.

Fine!
but note the emotion and bias you have put to your categories compared to the ones I have written.

 

[Brosville]

One could also add "head in the sand "

Who refuses to countenance the fact that 150 year old techniques may be lacking
Blindly follows bad advice because "it's what they all do"
Subjects the bees to intrusive and unnecessary inspections
Forces them into chemical sodden foundation, dictating cell size
Killing drone brood, because it seems like a good idea (remember all those useless tonsillectomies?)
Subject them to what is tantamount to yelling "your house is on fire" when a quiet approach or a little artificial "rain" will do the trick
Puts honey crop before the welfare of the bees
Nicks all the honey and replaces with sugar syrup
Attempts to subvert nature by suppressing swarming at all costs
Encourages disease by importing stock
Blindly pays £30 a year to the local association, ignoring the fact it adds their name and tacit support for a deeply questionable national association and it's amoral tie-up with Big Pestco..........
Becomes a "pool of disease" by giving bees no opportunity to develop natural ways of coping.......(and backing calls to kill feral colonies)
Need I go on?

 

[freethorpe bees]

Interesting post. I'm somewhere between steward and partner I reckon.

 

[Rosti]

Need I go on?

??? Need you stop?

Another wonderfully hyjacked thread to propone the gospel according to Brosville

 

[victor meldrew]

VM

 

[Beeforest]

Interesting post. I'm somewhere between steward and partner I reckon.

Yes, I reckon that's where I am with my nationals. I am hoping to populate a couple of Warres this season and will try to manage these hives somewhere between partner and participant.
I feel I can only make a judgement about the management of the hives / methodologies if I have actually done it!

 

[RoofTops]

Fine!
but note the emotion and bias you have put to your categories compared to the ones I have written.

I did say I was playing Devil's Advocate. I don't use queen excluders or feed the bees sugar syrup - except on one colony at the moment which ran out of stores. However, your categories presume there is a specific "bee-friendly" way to keep bees and the implication is anyone not following this model is somehow being "unfriendly" and perhaps therefore cruel? It all seems a bit judgemental, idealistic and even a little obsessive to me.

Bees have a good way of telling the beekeeper they are not being well looked after - they die.

 

[Beeforest]

I did say I was playing Devil's Advocate.

It seemed to work in one case!

However, your categories presume there is a specific "bee-friendly" way to keep bees and the implication is anyone not following this model is somehow being "unfriendly" and perhaps therefore cruel? It all seems a bit judgemental, idealistic and even a little obsessive to me.

If that's the way you interpret it then fine, but I did say that one is no more defensively ethical than another. Personally I find it a better way not to be judgemental about others because it explains a deeper view of how others' view the world and mankind's role within it.

Also I find the comment about it being ' sweet ideas' in your first post a bit patronising.

 

[susbees]

??? Need you stop?

Another wonderfully hyjacked thread to propone the gospel according to Brosville

We have got PC's rottweiler online again. Terrible post.

"Fine!
but note the emotion and bias you have put to your categories compared to the ones I have written."

Take 2.

 

[susbees]

On second thoughts, I apologise those beautiful dogs, everywhere...

 

[Cazza]

Killing drone brood, because it seems like a good idea (remember all those useless tonsillectomies?)
:

Hang on a minute, tonsillectomy aged 7 was the best thing to happen to me. It stopped me missing weeks and weeks off school with terrible throat infections. Well worth the pain and agony!
Cazza

 

[psafloyd]

I hope to have a warré running this year to see how it functions, particularly to test the hypothesis about varroa and core temperatures.

Like any such categorisation, the categories operate on a binary or black and white spectrum that does not work on the real world.


I would say i lie between a couple of spaces with regard to different elements of beekeeping. Reality is about shades of great and that is why it is hard to make decisions some times.

Unless you are religious/dogmatic and then you have a black and white blueprint you can apply to any situation.

 

[Beeforest]

I hope to have a warré running this year to see how it functions, particularly to test the hypothesis about varroa and core temperatures.

Like any such categorisation, the categories operate on a binary or black and white spectrum that does not work on the real world.


I would say i lie between a couple of spaces with regard to different elements of beekeeping. Reality is about shades of great and that is why it is hard to make decisions some times.

Unless you are religious/dogmatic and then you have a black and white blueprint you can apply to any situation.

Yes I'm sure in reality there are elements of all four categories in most people's practice.
Thanks for the sensible thoughtful post - rather unlike the few that have preceeded it.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I think David Heaf might be being deliberately provocative with his choice of beekeepers characteristics, with the view slightly skewed to his own opinion and to fit the title of the book - "Bee-Friendly Beekeeper". Without reading the book it's hard to know if he's hinting that people who don't align themselves with the last category are not 'bee friendly'.

I think we (me and mine) hover around the last three descriptions, but with only one or two aspects of the 'participant'. I think the 'duty of care' is perhaps the most important thing he mentions in any of the descriptions.

 

[alanf]

There are two types of people, one of them looks for reasons to divide others into groups.

 

[Beeforest]

There are two types of people, one of them looks for reasons to divide others into groups.

Is that meant to be philosophical?

 

[Hombre]

Cazza, you can't be serious about your age 7 tonsilectomy being the best thing in your life? A bit of poetic licence perhaps?

We did keep a few surgeons in business back in the 50's though. I well remember the ice cream and announcing that I could swallow peas whole now! I don't suppose that it did me any harm and I had been dogged by sore throats.