Do you ever get the feeling you just been used?

[Chris Luck]

I've used oxalic acid to bleach oak;

Chris

 

[pargyle]

I've used oxalic acid to bleach oak;

Chris

It does a great job of taking rust stains and waterline stains off glassfibre boats as well !

 

[village girl]

BUT the big beekeepin book says ALL swarms are riddled with varroa.....
another example of botched swarm collecting ?

No the collection was perfect, not a bee left and the old ladys garden was not disturbed in any way. And the treatment used is what was advised on swarms as no brood is presant, but we live and learn and we all make mistakes at times,

A different aproach will be used next time

 

[itma]

No the collection was perfect, not a bee left and the old ladys garden was not disturbed in any way. And the treatment used is what was advised on swarms as no brood is presant, but we live and learn and we all make mistakes at times,

A different aproach will be used next time

To learn from mistakes, the essential thing is to identify the mistake!

Personally, I doubt that the Oxalic caused the departure.
I wouldn't call that a "mistake" as such.

I think that giving them a box completely full of drawn comb (so with no chance of doing what swarms want to do - draw comb) would have been closer to the cause of absconding.

Since it was a mega-swarm, I wondered (and asked) what size of box they were hived in. There may be a lesson there. From the sounds of it, anything less than a 14x12 brood might have been a bit crowded for them - my understanding is that swarms want a place they can grow into, and eventually fill. Hence the standard idea of about 40 litres (a National brood, approx). But while a small swarm will settle happily in a nuc, I suspect that a whopper wants something more than the usual 40 litres.
/ Seeley may have found 40 litres to be the middle ground, but he didn't report on cavity size versus swarm size!

If crowded, and no chance of comb-drawing, and not given brood as an anchor, AND the Oxalic, I think that combination might explain the absconding.

With beekeeping, there's rarely black/white right/wrong.
I think much more in terms of probability and tipping the odds - and which way an action is likely to tip them.
If you've done lots of things to tip the odds in favour of them staying, then the odd worthwhile action (like Oxalic) that might go the other way can be risked, because the odds are already well-stacked in your favour.

 

[For want of a better word]

It does a great job of taking rust stains and waterline stains off glassfibre boats as well !

I get the stains off my sails with it.... eliminating all the iron from a 45 year old boat seems to be a thankless task... as for Chinese "stainless steel" !!!


Have not worked out how to vaporise them as yet!

 

[Cazza]

did they actually need it though??

It's quite a drastic treatment if the drop is either low or non-determinate - isn't it worth waiting for a drop count to see if it's needed, esp this year as anecdotal evidence of other beekeepers I have talked to suggest a low count in lots of cases.

just asking

I think you are right. No need to use Oxalic straight away. I think it is better to monitor drop. I would use something more gentle anyway.
Cazza

 

[Outlander]

BUT the big beekeepin book says ALL swarms are riddled with varroa.....
another example of botched swarm collecting ?

In what way was it botched or are you just talking out of your arse. Or are you some swarm guru. Maybe I should consult you everytime I pick up a swarm, you can PM me your phone number.


Itma it was 14 x12 all my equipment including nucs.

 

[beekeeping4you]

I've used oxalic acid to bleach oak;

It does a great job of taking rust stains and waterline stains off glassfibre boats as well !

Hi folks,
Out of pure interest:
Did you use the crystallized 'dihydrate' OA as offered for treatment of Varroa?

Regards
Reiner

 

[user 6228]

....
/ Seeley may have found 40 litres to be the middle ground, but he didn't report on cavity size versus swarm size!

...

He said there is no correlation beween swarm size and preffered nest size i.e. they all have the same distribution of preference.
i'll dig out te reference

 

[region2]

Acid on a swarm? Ouch! Wouldn't icing sugar and quarantine be a better bet rather than p|ss them off as soon as they arrive in their new home?
Just suggestin'...

 

[For want of a better word]

In what way was it botched or are you just talking out of your arse. Or are you some swarm guru. Maybe I should consult you everytime I pick up a swarm, you can PM me your phone number.


Itma it was 14 x12 all my equipment including nucs.

Perhaps my reply was as a warning to the not so experts... not referring to the likes of such as your good self, who I am sure has many years of experience.

Must admit I am feeling a little churlish as I was the one who had to pick up the remainder of a swarm that had also moved into a compost bin... and incurred the wrath of a neighbour who had got herself stung... firstly accusing me of overcharging the compost bin owner and then accusing me of not being a qualified pest exterminator.

Overcharging my arse.... 55 mile round trip and my time and fuel all for free, in the hope of establishing some respect back for beekeepers.

The fate of the bees... merged with a cast from yet another compost bin!

The advice is if you are not 100% sure that all the bees have been safely gathered in... leave a Nuc on the site and collect the next day.


QED

 

[user 6228]

re: not fill completely with drawn comb, the other colony smell if too strong might deter them.
The desire to put work into a new nest to establish the "us" smell and not the "them" smell may not be limited to bees. I suspect the female homo sapiens has the same behaviour. Common behavoir of the female after the male has left the nest is to rre scent the nest. Similarly on investing in a new nest the female will start by scenting the nest from little cans rather than glands and then recoat the nest with smelly pigments.

 

[itma]

{Seeley} said there is no correlation beween swarm size and preffered nest size i.e. they all have the same distribution of preference.
i'll dig out te reference

I'm happy that scouting may show no preference.

However, preventing absconding is what we are looking at here.
And I don't think the great man ever looked at absconding!

 

[village girl]

P


The advice is if you are not 100% sure that all the bees have been safely gathered in... leave a Nuc on the site and collect the next day.
Definatly wait untill after dark befor collecting or foragers will be missed

 

[Chris Luck]

re: not fill completely with drawn comb, the other colony smell if too strong might deter them.
The desire to put work into a new nest to establish the "us" smell and not the "them" smell may not be limited to bees. I suspect the female homo sapiens has the same behaviour. Common behavoir of the female after the male has left the nest is to rre scent the nest. Similarly on investing in a new nest the female will start by scenting the nest from little cans rather than glands and then recoat the nest with smelly pigments.

Hmmm, not a problem I've experienced using drawn comb and swarms will definitely be attracted to an old colony. There's always plenty of repairing, cleaning and "wax work" to be done.

I'll steer clear of commenting on the scent of women as I could see myself digging a hole.

Chris

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

I get the stains off my sails with it.... eliminating all the iron from a 45 year old boat seems to be a thankless task... as for Chinese "stainless steel" !!!


Have not worked out how to vaporise them as yet!

Vaporising the Chinese is that not genocide?

 

[For want of a better word]

Vaporising the Chinese is that not genocide?

NO ... my sails... silly !
Some of my best friends are from the Orient, but none of them keep bees!

Back on topic.. or slightly off of it....
Anyone ever tried using a queen excluder to span the floor of the BB / over the entrance.... have tried this but did not know if the swarm would have absconded or not in the first instance.

IMOVLE.....

In My Own Very Limited Experience​

 

[Ely]

I find it doubtful that a swarm would leave due to drawn comb. Nature likes to conserve energy after all. Swarms occupy old nests all the time so scent will not put them off either. You don't find clean boxes with fresh foundation in the wild.

 

[pargyle]

Hi folks,
Out of pure interest:
Did you use the crystallized 'dihydrate' OA as offered for treatment of Varroa?

Regards
Reiner

This is the stuff I used:

http://www.constructionchemicals.co.uk/Oxalic-Acid.html?gclid=CP_3vef5m7gCFVMRtAodpVMAqw

Says it can be used for Varroa in the right dilution - I assume it's the same stuff although I haven't used it (and really don't want to).

 

[MandF]

I'd find somewhere else to live if someone poured acid on me

I wonder if people would be less kneejerk about oxalic if it was called 'rhubarb extract', and not 'acid'?

Trickling rhubarb extract on bees sounds much more homeopathic and homely.