Demaree - what did I do wrong?

[Wingy]

Strong colony 2019 Q (who swarmed & was caught last year) brood over 9 frames & on 3rd super, so set up as follows:
Floor, QX over entrance, brood Box with 10 foundation Q in, QX, 2 x part filled supers, 1 x spun & returned super, QX, brood Box with all brood, no Q cells, CB & roof.
8 days later checked top brood box & found 6 sealed Q cells over 3 frames. Made up Nuc using 1 frame with 2 Q cells + 2nd frame of brood (replaced with 2 frames of drawn comb). Destroyed all other Q cells, removed QX from entrance to aid bees entry / exit very busy.
Full inspection today (7 days later)
Top brood box like a giant honey super, all 3 supers almost full, bottom brood box not a single bit of foundation drawn & no Q. Every box was rammed full of bees, they were calm & didn’t seem Q- so thinking the Q must have slipped above the QX I pulled and brushed bees off every frame putting them into fresh boxes - no Q, no eggs or larvae, just a bit of old sealed brood from top brood box.
So think they swarmed anyway

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

apart from the question 'why the QX under everything'
as nothing had been drawn in the bottom BB although the queen was supposedly trapped in there for a week, reckon she was killed right at the beginning.
were there any QC's in the hive before you started the Demarree?

 

[Wingy]

No Q cells at the beginning lots of play cups but nothing charged.
The QX’s were to separate the supers from the brood boxes. The QX over the entrance was to stop them absconding before foundation was drawn and Q laying again which I thought 7 days would be adequate.
This was a very prolific Q who I attempted to slow down a bit

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m afraid I don’t know the answer but why didn’t you put at least a couple of drawn frames in with the queen? I always do.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’m afraid I don’t know the answer but why didn’t you put at least a couple of drawn frames in with the queen? I always do.

Demarree originally used a box full of drawn comb or 'as much as possible' it sometimes needs a little nudge to get then to draw it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Demarree originally used a box full of drawn comb or 'as much as possible' it sometimes needs a little nudge to get then to draw it.

I agree. Very often my bees have been reluctant to draw it so the odd foundation frame goes in the top box till it’s drawn.

 

[Wingy]

In hindsight I should have put some drawn comb in the bottom brood box with the Q but last year when they swarmed and were re captured I placed them on foundation and it was mostly drawn and eggs within 3 days.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In hindsight I should have put some drawn comb in the bottom brood box with the Q but last year when they swarmed and were re captured I placed them on foundation and it was mostly drawn and eggs within 3 days.

A swarm is completely different. They are in a hurry.

 

[Wingy]

A swarm is completely different. They are in a hurry.

Good point, lesson learned but gutted to have lost one of my better Q’s, however it happened. Was surprised though to find no attempt to draw the foundation

 

[Etton]

Would leaving some sealed brood in the bottom box also help (no eggs or young larvae of course)?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve always left the frame she’s on eggs larvae whatever
They are not in swarm mode.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Good point, lesson learned but gutted to have lost one of my better Q’s, however it happened. Was surprised though to find no attempt to draw the foundation

Would leaving some sealed brood in the bottom box also help (no eggs or young larvae of course)?

People are getting Demarree confused with an Arfificial Swarm maneuvre.

In a Demarree the bees are not geared up to having to start from scratch which they are when in swarming mode, and until the queen starts laying you are not going to get the migration of younger, wax making bees from the top box down to the bottom.
I always take the queen on whatever frame I find her on and put it in the bottom box with at least a frame of drawn comb each side of her. No need to avoid leaving eggs and young larvae down there they are not in swarm mode
You can even risk taking the queen off the frame and putting her below with no brood - as long as she has plenty of drawn comb to lay on (I had to go back in to the bottom box on a Demarree I had set up last week, five minutes after putting the queen on her frame down there - she had already moved off and was exploring the new drawn comb on the next frame.

 

[Swarm]

Queen on her frame and as many drawn combs as I have available, if I have to add foundation I try to make room in the upper box. Any foundation in bottom box is rotated upstairs as soon as a comb becomes available to swap it with. The queen should get a constant supply of cells to lay in.

 

[Etton]

Queen on her frame and as many drawn combs as I have available, if I have to add foundation I try to make room in the upper box. Any foundation in bottom box is rotated upstairs as soon as a comb becomes available to swap it with. The queen should get a constant supply of cells to lay in.

Did my first demaree today, no QC’s, so not ready to swarm. The Q is unmarked, and I couldn’t find, so I shook all the bees into the bottom BB and left all drawn comb with some sealed brood and stored. Two QE separating the two brood boxes with 2 supers in between. So good so far! I will check both BB’s in 7 days and then decide what to do if I find QC’s in either box.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Did my first demaree today, no QC’s, so not ready to swarm. The Q is unmarked, and I couldn’t find, so I shook all the bees into the bottom BB and left all drawn comb with some sealed brood and stored. Two QE separating the two brood boxes with 2 supers in between. So good so far! I will check both BB’s in 7 days and then decide what to do if I find QC’s in either box.

Where is most of the brood?

 

[Etton]

Where is most of the brood?

All the brood is in the top box, apart from a little sealed brood in the bottom box. That’s correct isn’t it?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

doesn't matter whether it's sealed brood, unsealed, eggs, or nothing at all - it's not an A/S

 

[Etton]

It’s not intended to be an artificial swarm. I’m following your guidance on demaree!

 

[Swarm]

Etton,
Yes what you have is correct and when you next inspect, finding the queen should be simple.
If there was no swarm impulse prior to Demarree, the bottom box should resemble a building colony. The top box may or may not contain cells but these are from supersedure impulse so even when sealed there is no swarm issued from the hive. I removed three sealed cells last inspection.

 

[Etton]

On a demaree, as the brood hatches in the top BB dont the bees tend to either fill with honey or move honey up from the supers.