Dead lavae and bees

[oldmatty]

@oldmatty . I don't doubt that your time-served beekeepers may be onto something......I'm just following the humour flow.......... no-one here who hasn't tried using rhubarb leaves can specifically say they don't work; even though they probably don't.

I'm just not a big Bayer or Monsatto fan . Thought it might be worth a go as it does contact the acid. My concern is loosing the colony

 

[Wilco]

I collected the swarm late July last year. Had some rhubarb leaves in there over winter

The most likely thing to happen with rhubarb leaves being used for this is that the varroa load causes the colony to.... Crumble!

In all seriousness, the reason this is suggested by people is that oxalic acid is used effectively as a varroa treatment and rhubarb leaves contain oxalic acid. Some people like the idea that this is 'more natural' than treating with an evidence based treatment. My comments on a recent thread sum up my thoughts on 'more natural' in a beekeeping context...

I'd strongly recommend treating ASAP with an evidence based OA formulation. Plenty of threads on the forum. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes to the colony.

 

[Wilco]

I'm just not a big Bayer or Monsatto fan . Thought it might be worth a go as it does contact the acid. My concern is loosing the colony

Neither am I. But OA treatment doesn't require you to be. More likely to lose the colony by not treating- lookup the thread on how varroa feeds off the fat cells of bees.

 

[oldmatty]

The most likely thing to happen with rhubarb leaves being used for this is that the varroa load causes the colony to.... Crumble!

In all seriousness, the reason this is suggested by people is that oxalic acid is used effectively as a varroa treatment and rhubarb leaves contain oxalic acid. Some people like the idea that this is 'more natural' than treating with an evidence based treatment. My comments on a recent thread sum up my thoughts on 'more natural' in a beekeeping context...

I'd strongly recommend treating ASAP with an evidence based OA formulation. Plenty of threads on the forum. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes to the colony.

I know rhubarb contains it that's why I tried using it.

Like I said I've used the strips in the past.

Is the Apiguard better than the strips

 

[oldmatty]

I don't wear coloured Hunters or have WBCs in front of my property

 

[Wilco]

I know rhubarb contains it that's why I tried using it.

Like I said I've used the strips in the past.

Is the Apiguard better than the strips

Apiguard is effective if the ambient temperature is high enough. However, this contains thymol not OA.

Personally I'd find a way to use OA vaporisation under The Cascade but I do have an advantage in that regard.

 

[Wilco]

I don't wear coloured Hunters or have WBCs in front of my property

That's gone completely over my head.

 

[oldmatty]

That's gone completely over my head.

Sorry I have a strange sense of humour

 

[Wilco]

Sorry I have a strange sense of humour

Me too, thought there was a joke in it just wasn't sure!

 

[drdrday]

I'm just not a big Bayer or Monsatto fan . Thought it might be worth a go as it does contact the acid. My concern is loosing the colony

Nothing wrong with trying alternative treatments, after all you dont know how effective they are until you try. But I think the lesson to learn in this case is that you need to up the ante in how well you monitor varroa load if you're using an unproven treatment so that at least you'll know if it's not working as you might have expected and can fix it before its too late.
Definitely need to do a sugar (or alcohol) roll and get a true reading on varroa levels, then treat as quick as possible with a proven treatment.

 

[oldmatty]

Nothing wrong with trying alternative treatments, after all you dont know how effective they are until you try. But I think the lesson to learn in this case is that you need to up the ante in how well you monitor varroa load if you're using an unproven treatment so that at least you'll know if it's not working as you might have expected and can fix it before its too late.
Definitely need to do a sugar (or alcohol) roll and get a true reading on varroa levels, then treat as quick as possible with a proven treatment.

I'm not familiar with those rolls. I learnt through BBKA but I've never heard of that method

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I learnt through BBKA

Nuff said

 

[oldmatty]

Nuff said

Not a fan? Useless bunch I know

 

[drdrday]

I'm not familiar with those rolls. I learnt through BBKA but I've never heard of that method

Pretty simple really, just uses icing sugar to dislodge varroa mites from bees. You can do similar with alcohol but obviously it kills the bees too so sugar is my preference.

You can get special containers for doing this: Varroa Tester 3in1 - Welcome to Abelo's Beekeeping Supplies

But I just use a small kilner jar with a bit of varroa mesh in the lid. Or you can use a jam jar and have a bit of netting that you can fit over the end with a rubber band.
Fill your jar with bees and cover with mesh lid. It's a good idea to mark a line on the jar so that each time you test you know you're comparing the same volume and therefore the same number of bees. Also use the same type of bees each time for an accurate comparison. For instance nurse bees are more likely to have a greater mite load than bees in the supers.
Add a couple of big spoons of icing sugar to your jar through the mesh. Roll the jar around for a good couple of minutes. You can then shake all the icing sugar out onto a flat surface. I use an old white plastic tray as I find it easier to see the mites and count them. The bees covered in icing sugar can then go back in the hive where they'll be cleaned up by their sisters.
I'm sure there'll be plenty of videos demonstrating the process on YouTube.

 

[oldmatty]

Pretty simple really, just uses icing sugar to dislodge varroa mites from bees. You can do similar with alcohol but obviously it kills the bees too so sugar is my preference.

You can get special containers for doing this: Varroa Tester 3in1 - Welcome to Abelo's Beekeeping Supplies

But I just use a small kilner jar with a bit of varroa mesh in the lid. Or you can use a jam jar and have a bit of netting that you can fit over the end with a rubber band.
Fill your jar with bees and cover with mesh lid. It's a good idea to mark a line on the jar so that each time you test you know you're comparing the same volume and therefore the same number of bees. Also use the same type of bees each time for an accurate comparison. For instance nurse bees are more likely to have a greater mite load than bees in the supers.
Add a couple of big spoons of icing sugar to your jar through the mesh. Roll the jar around for a good couple of minutes. You can then shake all the icing sugar out onto a flat surface. I use an old white plastic tray as I find it easier to see the mites and count them. The bees covered in icing sugar can then go back in the hive where they'll be cleaned up by their sisters.
I'm sure there'll be plenty of videos demonstrating the process on YouTube.

Nice one thanks for taking the time to post. I'm gonna have to an order in with him anyway for OA. I use them for frames

 

[drdrday]

Nice one thanks for taking the time to post. I'm gonna have to an order in with him anyway for OA. I use them for frames

You're welcome. Hope it's helpful. Certainly doesn't need one of the bought containers, as I said, I don't have one, but I assume they make things a bit simpler. Several of the beekeeping suppliers do them in one form or another:
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=7412

 

[oldmatty]

You're welcome. Hope it's helpful. Certainly doesn't need one of the bought containers, as I said, I don't have one, but I assume they make things a bit simpler. Several of the beekeeping suppliers do them in one form or another:
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=7412

Just after I posted that I thought why do I need to buy anything.
Any specific jars you use to give me a heads up on numbers. IE Bon mama jar just under thread is X bees

 

[drdrday]

Just after I posted that I thought why do I need to buy anything.
Any specific jars you use to give me a heads up on numbers. IE Bon mama jar just under thread is X bees

Here's what my jar and lid looks like.

I literally just filled a measuring jug with 250ml of water, poured it in the kilner jar and marked a line around at that level.
I'm not sure exactly how many bees are in 250ml. I think it's around 700-750, although from a quick browse on t'interweb there doesn't seem to be any specific agreement. Of course you could mark your jar at a different level, like 150ml. 250ml is just what worked for me. Alternatively, don't bother marking the jar and just use a specific size cup or mug to scoop up your bees and tip them into the jar.

I don't really try to calculate how many mites per 100 bees or anything, but just use it comparatively to see how different hives compare, or how the same hive compares over time.

 

[oldmatty]

Here's what my jar and lid looks like. View attachment 27539

I literally just filled a measuring jug with 250ml of water, poured it in the kilner jar and marked a line around at that level.
I'm not sure exactly how many bees are in 250ml. I think it's around 700-750, although from a quick browse on t'interweb there doesn't seem to be any specific agreement. Of course you could mark your jar at a different level, like 150ml. 250ml is just what worked for me. Alternatively, don't bother marking the jar and just use a specific size cup or mug to scoop up your bees and tip them into the jar.

I don't really try to calculate how many mites per 100 bees or anything, but just use it comparatively to see how different hives compare, or how the same hive compares over time.

Ok so what's really bad % wise and what's OK


So out of your 250ml whats a bad count and what's ok?

If that makes any sense

 

[user 20297]

I don't really try to calculate how many mites per 100 bees or anything, but just use it comparatively to see how different hives compare, or how the same hive compares over time.

I think that sounds more scientific than extrapolating, with the presumption that a random group of bees is always going to be properly representative of the whole colony.

Observing natural mite drop whilst adopting that method of comparison gives me day to day guidance as to where mite levels are heading.....or mite be heading.