Cup kit tips

[Apple]

Perhaps I should have added "check for eggs" before releasing her from the cage!


James

 

[MuswellMetro]

Well mine worked fine with honey and clean cells.

i was told the same.so i will tellyou in july as i have just bought one in Ts sale

 

[B+.]

When's the best time to remove the queen from the cassette? Also when do the cups need to go onto the cell bar?

http://www.nicotplast.fr/apianglais/queenbreeding/chronology-queen-breeding.htm

I have 3 of these that were successful in the beginning then I had a queen that frankly refused to lay in them. Eventually the colony swarmed and I lost one of my best breeder queens. I prefer to graft now.

 

[For want of a better word]

(leaving it in the hive for the next year is ideal)

One "forgotten"... not my fault notes had not been kept!
Only noticed as being placed in the wax melter.... filled with solidified honey and propolis!

Yeghes da

 

[mbc]

I prefer to graft now.[/QUOTE]

This is most people's experience going forwards.

 

[B+.]

I prefer to graft now.

This is most people's experience going forwards.[/QUOTE]

Yeah...but I was youngER then and I bought lots of things I rarely, if ever, use.

We should start a thread where we all confess our past extravagances.....and admin can give us absolution

 

[mbc]

This is most people's experience going forwards.

Yeah...but I was youngER then and I bought lots of things I rarely, if ever, use.

We should start a thread where we all confess our past extravagances.....and admin can give us absolution [/QUOTE]

I believe Dusty is responsible for ecumenical matters on the forum

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I believe Dusty is responsible for ecumenical matters on the forum

You can't say that! he's a man of the cloth - he wouldn't be up to anything untoward

 

[itma]

Returning to the subject of the OP, are there any significant differences in the use (or prospects) between the smaller (& cheaper) Cupkit and the bigger version?
At a recent talk, Roger Patterson (yes ...) was positive about the original, but wouldn't have anything to do with the little one. Something about the design of the back of it?
Anyone used/experienced both the original and the mini?

 

[IanBee]

I've used the small kit, smearing with just honey and have eggs after 1 day.

Is there a reason why you have to wait for the eggs to hatch (day 4) before transferring them to the Q cell holders? I've read one comment that someone successfully moved cups on day 1 with just eggs in.

 

[itma]

I've used the small kit, smearing with just honey and have eggs after 1 day.

Is there a reason why you have to wait for the eggs to hatch (day 4) before transferring them to the Q cell holders? I've read one comment that someone successfully moved cups on day 1 with just eggs in.

Ian, I think it might be that the workers in the cell-raising colony could be more likely to recognise them as QCs with larvae, rather than merely being eggs in a strange place ... and accordingly there would then be more chance of the nurses feeding the things than the housekeepers clearing them out!
So, like most bee manipulations, leaving until hatched would be more a matter of improving the odds than being an absolute necessity for success (which is why so many different methods for doing things do 'work' and folk argue over details!)

Welcome to the forum, BTW!

I'd be interested to learn the precise details of where (and when) you smeared the honey and whether (or how long) you allowed the bees to 'adopt' the kit before putting Q inside the box.


I'm contemplating building a "labyrinth' mounting frame, kinda like this Roger Patterson pic (on the Cushman site), but on a 14x12 ... not sure whether this is a good idea or just procrastination ...

 

[B+.]

Ian, I think it might be that the workers in the cell-raising colony could be more likely to recognise them as QCs with larvae, rather than merely being eggs in a strange place ... and accordingly there would then be more chance of the nurses feeding the things than the housekeepers clearing them out!

It also saves three days if you give them newly emerged larvae. To a queenless colony, thats important

 

[masterBK]

I use the original size cupkit , queen was put in on monday so today expected to find 1 day old larvae but only found eggs (they do take a day or two sometimes before laying). Transferred 20 cells with eggs to each of two cloake board colonies as I am not able to go back to my bees tomorrow. I have no worries about this as I have obtained 70 to 80% acceptance using eggs in the past. Bees recognise eggs as well as larvae in vertical orientated cells as "potential" queens and feed accordingly once the eggs are hatched. Eggs are more resistant to dessication than larvae. Will go on Sunday and find out how many accepted and report back. I never found the need to smear kit with honey but do condition the queen enclosure in the breeder colony and the frames with cups in the cloake board colonies for a few days prior to their use to alow the bees to walk over them and make them smell right!

 

[B+.]

I use the original size cupkit , queen was put in on monday so today expected to find 1 day old larvae but only found eggs

Did you leave your queen in the laying cage all week? I agree, it can be very frustrating when the queen doesn't lay straight away, but, when I tried that, the bees started raising queen cells at the other side of the box. I have always thought that the queen moving over the combs leaves her pheremone so they know she's there. When she is confined for any length of time, they think they're queenless.
I have 3 of the larger cages but haven't used them in a while because grafting seemed so much more flexible/easier.

 

[masterBK]

I have used to use the fondant self release feature on the cup kit in the past but often didn't work. Sometimes she was released too early by her workers before she had laid anything and sometimes even though the fondant had been eaten away I found the queen still walking around inside the enclosure despite an obvious escape route. I now leave her inside and release her when I go and check for larvae on the 4th day. Often I find enough 1 day old larvae but sometimes like today I find just eggs. There was only one egg per plastic cell today but have found 3 or 4 eggs per cell in the past but this is not a problem as they seem to accept the 1st one to hatch and get one queen per cell. If I have the time I will go back (out apiary several miles away) the next day to retrieve cells with the desired one day old larvae and find I can get 90% plus acceptance. I used to graft in the past (using a 001 brush) but as I grow older eyesight problems and shaky hands necessitates the switch to the "lego" methods like cupkit ( mine) or jenter (borrowed).Both are similar but prefer cupkit.

 

[B+.]

I used to graft in the past (using a 001 brush) but as I grow older eyesight problems and shaky hands necessitates the switch to the "lego" methods like cupkit ( mine) or jenter (borrowed).Both are similar but prefer cupkit.

I'm not quite at that stage yet. I manage ok with one of those magnifying headbands and a Chinese grafting tool.
The fondant release didn't work for me either. I sealed it off with a plastic cap and released the queen after 24 hours whether she'd laid it or not. I didn't want to lose a breeder in a swarm. I found those cages worked best with queens in their first year when they will lay in just about any empty cell they can find. The problem is that I need to evaluate the queens for a couple of years first so they're a bit more reluctant to lay in the Nicot cages.
I didn't like the Jenter either. There were too many fiddley bits and pieces for me

 

[masterBK]

Update on using eggs in cupkit cells. Today was a bit disappointed to find only 18 queen cells so acceptance and conversion rate only 45% which is far lower than in previous years. They will go into Apideas in about 8 days time. Hope the weather improves otherwise mating will not be too good.

 

[drex]

Tried it again. Different queen. Cup kit in for 3 days for conditioning. Smeared with honey. Put queen in. No eggs after 3 days.
Trying it again in different hive. Have used some wax on the cells this time.

 

[B+.]

Tried it again. Different queen. Cup kit in for 3 days for conditioning. Smeared with honey. Put queen in. No eggs after 3 days.
Trying it again in different hive. Have used some wax on the cells this time.

Is it surrounded by comb? I heard that the reason many people fail with the cages is that the queen doesn't like laying in a box with a void around it.

 

[2_dive]

I have used the Cupkit system for the past 3 years and have never had a problem with the queen fully laying up the frame. I have always prepared the frame by covering it in a 2:1 sugar solution and then it is placed in the hive 24hrs before the queen is introduced.