crystallisation issues

[JohnRoss]

I got a new job in Aughust so didn't have the same time to devote to my honey harvest as I did last year. To cut a long story short I now have 2 x 35 l settleing tanks (strained honey), about 10 10kg honey buckets (unstrained), about 10 supers and a wired deep brood box full of crystallized honey ( the wired deep being hard won heather). Just wondering if any-one has any Ideas, at this stage the plan is to feed the supers back next spring and try to heat the other stuff in a big sink bit by bit with warm water.

 

[enrico]

I got a new job in Aughust so didn't have the same time to devote to my honey harvest as I did last year. To cut a long story short I now have 2 x 35 l settleing tanks (strained honey), about 10 10kg honey buckets (unstrained), about 10 supers and a wired deep brood box full of crystallized honey ( the wired deep being hard won heather). Just wondering if any-one has any Ideas, at this stage the plan is to feed the supers back next spring and try to heat the other stuff in a big sink bit by bit with warm water.

It will cost you a fortune in hot water. Make a simple cheap heat cabinet. Plenty of ideas on how to do it on this site.
E

 

[joe9052]

Sounds like a nice large homemade honey warming chmaber required...

 

[oliver90owner]

If I were faced with that sort of problem, I would be very busy with my li*l jam maker.

You sure they are not 14kg buckets of honey? Not many use 7.5 litre honey buckets.

Ten litre buckets fit inside and my honey tank will sit on it. Some insulation wrap would help to ease the leccy bill. Temperature reg is very good on the newer ones with electronic controllers. I would also likely be using my STC 1000 controller to 'oversee' the bulk warming part to avoid any overheating.

RAB

 

[itma]

… Temperature reg is very good on the newer ones with electronic controllers. I would also likely be using my STC 1000 controller to 'oversee' the bulk warming part to avoid any overheating.

RAB

RAB, the Jam Maker pulls 2.2kw, which is right on the limit for the STC1000's 10amp relays …

- and - using the STC with my rice cooker, I can get a significant overshoot when using the 'powerful' 550 watt setting! (It is much tamer on the lower 'keep warm' setting.)

I'm really not too sure how the "newer ones withe the electronic control" would get on with any external controller (without internal rewiring).



I have a PID controller and SSR for my Mk 1 (dumb, non-electronic) Jam Maker. Works very well indeed.

 

[oliver90owner]

the Jam Maker pulls 2.2kw, which is right on the limit for the STC1000's 10amp relays …-

Sorry, very tough for you with yours but mine is rated at 1800W and draws very close to that (I actually used a power meter to check how much it cost to fully melt a full bucket of honey). Water temperature does not overshoot at all and is good to about plus or minus one degree Celsius indicated. Indicated temperature is in agreement with my precision pH meter calibration so, all in all, I am confident mine is working both precisely and accurately.

So well within the current range for the STC as it will only switch off the once if it were to overheat (jam maker woud default to start up sequence if switched back on, so would never activate the heater relay without further input from me. Jam maker plugged in through the STC, so decidedly no modification necessary whatsoever.

I know most 3kW timers are not recommended on 3kW immersion heater circuits, but I reckon this would be OK at 7.5A with no inductive switching.

Not all STCs are equal, either. Some have fewer options (heater or cooler, but only one pair of contacts)and some have contacts rated at only 5A. Buyer beware, when ordering from the internet, is the name of the game - and being able to read and understand the precise specification, so the subtle differences are noted, is a definite advantage if the correct variant
is to arrive from China!

 

[Midland Beek]

So what's a jam maker?

Do these heat on water? Are they safe to melt wax without chance of combustion? Don't you get heat spots if heating honey? Do they convert lead into gold as well?

Thanks.

 

[itma]

So what's a jam maker?

Do these heat on water? Are they safe to melt wax without chance of combustion? Don't you get heat spots if heating honey? Do they convert lead into gold as well?

Thanks.

Since the forum Search function obviously isn't working , I'll just explain that it is (was?) a really cheap 27 litre enamelled tea urn, with the element outside the tank.

 

[itma]

I got a new job in Aughust so didn't have the same time to devote to my honey harvest as I did last year. To cut a long story short I now have 2 x 35 l settleing tanks (strained honey), about 10 10kg honey buckets (unstrained), about 10 supers and a wired deep brood box full of crystallized honey ( the wired deep being hard won heather). Just wondering if any-one has any Ideas, at this stage the plan is to feed the supers back next spring and try to heat the other stuff in a big sink bit by bit with warm water.

You could ask around to see if anyone knows anyone who has an "Apimelter" - it'll get your honey out of the comb without harming it - but it will melt down those combs. It is a professional, (expensive) well-controlled temperature thing. If you try to bodge something similar, you WILL spoil the honey. These things aren't expensive by chance.
A beefarmer local to me has one and processes combs for association members for £1/comb - which might be more than £15-worth of honey …


However, as has been indicated above, buckets etc of honey can be de-crystallised by very gentle heating (45C) for a day or two in its bucket - and for that, a controlled tea urn or home-made warming cabinet (search the forum for different ideas) is perfectly adequate.

 

[oliver90owner]

Midland beek,

http://www.lidl-service.com/cps/rde...Attr=en&title=Electric Fruit Preserver & Jam

Check out the link. The video will likely enlighten you as to its versatility. If the link doesn't work, you could just 'goggle' ''lidl jam maker'' for yourself.

RAB


( )

 

[Arfermo]

However, as has been indicated above, buckets etc of honey can be de-crystallised by very gentle heating (45C) for a day or two in its bucket - and for that, a controlled tea urn or home-made warming cabinet (search the forum for different ideas) is perfectly adequate.

Or even in your own electric thermostatically controlled oven on a low heat overnight does the trick. Oven might need to be set marginally higher than the 49C that the honey needs to be heated to in order to clear all the crystals. That is one way but, as a wine maker, I also have a heating mat and that does the trick well too without any risk at all of overheating the honey. Wine mats are nowhere near as expensive as some of the kit being mentioned on this thread - try Googling for homebrew at http://www.shop4homebrew.co.uk/index1.html? With my heating mat I wrap the whole bucket or whatever in a couple of old towels to avoid too much convection loss. Works exceptionally well and is low wattage so cheap to run.

 

[oliver90owner]

The jam maker at less than forty quid was, in my mind, far better value due to its versatility.

Can even be used as a HLT or even for boiling the wort (after modification) in brewing.

Where else can you get one item, for that price, which can be used for melting honey or wax, the aforementioned possibilities and all the advertised uses on the video? Mind you, I can't foresee me ever to be wanting to make over 20 litres of hot chocolate at a time!

The biggest problem with li*l items is the intermittent availability, which means one has to think ahead a tad - of the possibilities offered by the item.

I use a 50mm EPS box, almost fully enclosed, for a 25 litre bucket of must or wort. My ten watt heater gives me a temperature lift of at least eight degrees Celsius, so with a smaller box might get 14kg honey near to melted after a week or so....

 

[Arfermo]

The jam maker at less than forty quid was, in my mind, far better value due to its versatility.QUOTE]

Has got to run hotter than necessary and would need a thermostat at a much lower temp than it's likely to have as standard? Or a separate thermostatic control at extra cost? One doesn't want to boil honey - just gently, gently warm!!! My wine heating mat is a mere 35w compared to your 1800w (crikey) and is at least dual purpose!!! What more does one really need for the purpose of this thread outside a commercial load of kit at an astronomical prices for using once or maybe twice a year? Let's get real here!!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm sure the Lidl Jam Maker starts at 30˚.
It's in the beeroom across the yard and it's pelting with hail so I won't check.

 

[oliver90owner]

Look at the specs on the link supplied. Temperature control over the range of 30 to 100 Celsius. It has a controller, so switches the element on and off to control at the set point. It might use 1800W but is only on for a few seconds at a time when up to temperature.

A 28W brewbelt is well over twenty quid and the wine heating mats are not cheap either. They are designed for temperatures around 18-24 degrees Celsius, so you are proposing using them well outside their design range? Someone certainly needs to get real. Reading and understanding the specifications would be a good start.

 

[Midland Beek]

Internet tells me there are lots of boilers available. Presumably these all have hidden heating elements and are of a similar design to the Lidl one.

 

[oliver90owner]

Midland Beek,

Yes, lots available but not many at the value for money cost of the lid*l item.

Most are stainless steel, so technically a better material. Enamel finish is adequate for purpose, but would chip rather than dent if damaged and no longer be food grade.

Some have external elements but lots still have the older internal ones. Also many only have simmerstat controllers; the jam maker is much more precise, at least while operating with water as the medium.

It comes with a removable grid which sits about a cm or two above the vessel floor, so removes the possibility of temperature overshoot, localised heating and the honey bucket is kept clear of the temperature probe.

Of course, the dimensions are also important. The jam maker is a good match for the typical 10l honey bucket. I can get my 15l buckets in - just - but need to remove the handle. My honey settling tank will nicely sit over the top rim and is useful on the occasions when the last dregs require warming gently. - it would not want to be too heavy!

So, all in all, it suits my purpose. I can also melt wax or use it as a hot water source for beer brewing. I am able to make an extension to be able to use it with taller vessels (but clearly without increasing its liquid capacity), but I have no particular application, currently. Unfortunately for arfermo, it is not suitable, without modification, for fermenting wines as the temperature control does not operate below 30 degrees Celsius and it is is not tall enough (without an extension) for a standard demijohn.

Some of these items on epay, which appear from time to time, are the earlier version without the electronic controller (are served by a simmerstat, I believe). While fairly adequate, if closely supervised, they are most definitely inferior to the electronically controlled variants; they often sell for rather more than the new item, too.

RAB

 

[JohnRoss]

RAB, You were right about the honey buckets. Just weighed them with the luggage scales and they are about 14.75 kg each. I have cleared the honey out of the settling tanks. I just warmed them enough in the sink to make a kind of translucent goopy liquid. and got them into jars. been decrystallising the jars about 30 at a time in the fan oven, I turn it on at the lowest stetting (60 deg) for about 5 min then turn it off, and repeat every hour or so throughout the evening. the honey never gets any warmer than appromately freshly laid egg temp. It takes about three evenings of this to clear the honey. The only risk is that I might get distracted some evening and leave the oven on. I was berated by an older bee keeper in our association for this method, (darren will know who I am taking about). Will invest in one of those liddle yokes when they come round again.

Just wondering when would be a good time to feed the supers back. Maybe mid april? I just don't want to encourage early swarming.

 

[mbc]

Just wondering when would be a good time to feed the supers back. Maybe mid april? I just don't want to encourage early swarming.

I would scrape the honey from the combs down to the midrib, a sharpened serving spoon will do the job, this honey wax mixture can then be heated and strained or pressed, and the bees usually quickly make good such combs in anything of a flow, easier in my experience than getting them to empty full supers of crystallized honey.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Look at the specs on the link supplied. Temperature control over the range of 30 to 100 Celsius. It has a controller, so switches the element on and off to control at the set point. It might use 1800W but is only on for a few seconds at a time when up to temperature.

A 28W brewbelt is well over twenty quid and the wine heating mats are not cheap either. They are designed for temperatures around 18-24 degrees Celsius, so you are proposing using them well outside their design range? Someone certainly needs to get real. Reading and understanding the specifications would be a good start.

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