Covered in bees(me)

[Hasbee]

Hello, I currently have five BS hives at the bottom of my garden, all but one have new queens and are generally well behaved and working well…..the fifth one I believe may be queenless as the last inspection seven days ago there was no sealed brood, eggs or larvae. I was considering a test frame today. It is on a double brood box as it was prolific last year. They gave me this year three good supers of honey and are presently filling another three supers. On today’s inspection, there was a roar on taking the crown board off, and as I took off the supers off more and more bees came out to surround me! I got as far as the first brood box and could quickly see from some of the frames I took out that it is full of stores, the bottom box from a very quick look appeared to be stores also but I put it all back together as I could not really see with so many bees on my veil and gloves. If there is no brood being produced should the numbers reduce? Not really sure what way to go as it it hard to manage a hive that defensive. About ten followed me into the trees and they stayed until they were dispatched by clapping!
What to do from here is the question.
regards

 

[Erichalfbee]

Test frame. Then take it from there. You should know in three days if there is a queen there.
When did you last look into the brood?
By the way if you are looking through two broods lift the top one aside and inspect the bottom one first.

 

[Hasbee]

Thanks, but actually that was what I was trying to do when it was impossible to see anymore due to being covered with bees, do I have just persevere with the bees and try and get a frame in? Will that calm them down if they rear a queen?
thanks

 

[enrico]

Hi, firstly don't panic. We have all been there! Their temperament may have been a one off. Next time you go in try and do it about 11 am when the workers are out and fresh! They seem to get more angry as the day goes on. Be calm and do everything slowly with as much smoke as is needed. Take the top super off with a squirt if smoke in between but leave the crown board in place. Put another crown board on the second super and remove that placing it on top of the first. Those bees are now trapped. Quietly remove a centre frame and put your marked test frame in. Don't even consider removing that box to check the bottom one. Replace the boxes calmly and quietly.
When you get a stroppy hive it is hard to overcome the fear of going in again. Let's see what happens to the test frame before we make further decisions on the next step. Best of luck and keep us updated
E

 

[GlenJ]

I carry a fine mist water spray that I sometimes use instead of smoke, but it also seems to encourage followers to go home when it starts "raining". Seems kinder than clapping, but I've done that too!

 

[Curly green finger's]

I carry a fine mist water spray that I sometimes use instead of smoke, but it also seems to encourage followers to go home when it starts "raining". Seems kinder than clapping, but I've done that too!

I'm with you with the spray bottle imo it works better than smoke, that and a hive cloth. I spray them liberally when they get separated.
Im dealing with a queenless colony at the moment that are very aggressive I've moved them for this purpose all cells were distroyed and I'm hopefully requeening them with one of Jon Gettys or using them as a starter.

 

[pargyle]

I'm with you with the spray bottle imo it works better than smoke, that and a hive cloth. I spray them liberally when they get separated.
Im dealing with a queenless colony at the moment that are very aggressive I've moved them for this purpose all cells were distroyed and I'm hopefully requeening them with one of Jon Gettys or using them as a starter.

Be very cautious re-queening colonies that are agressive ... if you did not have a queen I would not have knocked down all the queen cells ... better to leave them with one until you have the new queen, then remove the last one - they are less likely to become agressive and they are likely to accept a new queen more readily if they think it's the natural order of things. Always better not to make your beekeeping life more difficult than it is.

I find a water spray useful when you need to control a colony but I just use a very light mist directed well above the open hive ... spraying them liberally with water can often have the opposite effect to the one you wanted ! Same with smoke sometimes as well ... less is more effective.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Be very cautious re-queening colonies that are agressive ... if you did not have a queen I would not have knocked down all the queen cells ... better to leave them with one until you have the new queen, then remove the last one - they are less likely to become agressive and they are likely to accept a new queen more readily if they think it's the natural order of things.

That’s a really great tip. If I can’t introduce a queen in a cage at the same time as taking the old one out the next best time for me has been around emergence of one of the colony’s own queen cells. So I always leave one. Or even two.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I would normally leave one queen cell but this colony are now going to be split I have cells emerging In 3 days so I'm using these.
I over marked another queen and she was dead on the frames and I have more cells from this colony also.

 

[Hasbee]

Thanks for the advice will have another go on Wednesday putting a test frame the upper brood box and see what a few days brings. Thanks

 

[Hasbee]

Update:- thanks Enrico, adapted your suggestion….with a little help from my friends (experienced beekeepers) we took the hive apart. To my amazement there where some eggs and brood and two charged Q cells. We took a brood box full of stores off and it is at the top of the hive over a crown board with an opening, leaving one brood box in position. hoping they can move the honey down to a newly added super. Will leave alone for a few weeks and see what they do. Supers filling fast!
regards.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Update:- thanks Enrico, adapted your suggestion….with a little help from my friends (experienced beekeepers) we took the hive apart. To my amazement there where some eggs and brood and two charged Q cells. We took a brood box full of stores off and it is at the top of the hive over a crown board with an opening, leaving one brood box in position. hoping they can move the honey down to a newly added super. Will leave alone for a few weeks and see what they do. Supers filling fast!
regards.

Bees won’t move honey down. Just extract the stores when capped

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We took a brood box full of stores off and it is at the top of the hive over a crown board with an opening hoping they can move the honey down to a newly added super.

That ain't going to happen - especially not with a flow on

 

[Hasbee]

Thanks will do.

 

[hemo]

Have you aged the QC's ?
They will need to be reduced down to one on day 13/14 of cell age, otherwise you will lose your summer forage bees in a swarm if they haven't already gone with the old Q. Also more EQC's will likely be produced so these will also need removing at the same time.

 

[Hasbee]

Thanks Hemo, the queen cells were just about to be capped,there were two but one got damaged and I left only one. Will check end of next week. With the vast number of bees present I don’t thing they have swarmed. Thanks

 

[hemo]

If just about to be capped an new VQ will be out sometime Friday or Saturday.

 

[enrico]

Thanks Hemo, the queen cells were just about to be capped,there were two but one got damaged and I left only one. Will check end of next week. With the vast number of bees present I don’t thing they have swarmed. Thanks

I think what people are trying to say is that...... You already have a queen in there as you have eggs, another queen emerging is going to give them two options. They could kill one of the queen's themselves which is really so unlikely at this time of the year, or they could swarm. When they swarm is up to them. The main problem now is you will probably never know if they have swarmed so you are left wondering if they are going to go or if that has already happened! Swarming takes ten minutes and your hive will look exactly the same after a swarm as it did before!
I think all you can do now is leave them and see what does happen but please be prepared with kit to take a swarm should one come out!
I am not sure who had the idea of the brood box of stores above the crown board but ...... Better in jars!
Bees are a challenge. You often have to try things and think out of the box but tried and tested seems to win in the end!
Best of luck. Keep us updated.
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

With the vast number of bees present I don’t thing they have swarmed. Thanks

Don’t be too sure. If your bees swarm one day and you look in the next with all the new bees emerging every day the colony will still look busy, especially if you look in when not many foragers are out

 

[hemo]

Also what some beeks don't realise is the continuation of existing brood emerging for up to 21 days after a swarm has left, these replacing lost bees soon build up the complement. If some one only realises a swarm has left some 3 - 5 days after the event then the new emerging brood in that time will have added many thousand's of new bees.
This is something that has been very noticeable over the last few months, postings of QLness without actually knowing what has or is occurring within the colony along with some dubious mentoring procedures/help.