Confused -Ambrosia feed paste / Apifonda

[oliver90owner]

Sorry, but you will have lost the credence of anyone who checks back for any sign of that statement. You are simply trying to suggest I swrote something that I clearly did not

Now you are trying to make up excuses for your lies.

In the interests of the rest of the forum I will leave you to make up any more lies on your own.

My statement was untrue was it? If refined sugar was not adequate (even back in WWII) then a lot of beekeepers have been misled over the years. Or does it really say what you are making up?

Lying, when the evidence is clear to see, is even more an utterly stupid line to take. Good day.

 

[BBG]

Sorry, but you will have lost the credence of anyone who checks back for any sign of that statement. You are simply trying to suggest I swrote something that I clearly did not

Now you are trying to make up excuses for your lies.

In the interests of the rest of the forum I will leave you to make up any more lies on your own.

My statement was untrue was it? If refined sugar was not adequate (even back in WWII) then a lot of beekeepers have been misled over the years. Or does it really say what you are making up?

Lying, when the evidence is clear to see, is even more an utterly stupid line to take. Good day.

I did not say your statement was untrue, merely that you said

"Refined sugar has been adequate for winter feeds for years and years and years. " the equivalent of saying "We've always done it this way"

Stamping your feet and name calling because you have been caught out or hoisted on your own petard is childish in the extreme.

 

[Meg]

Into the Lion's Den,

Thanks very much for your post - interesting to know how many more suppliers there are out there doing essentially the same thing. I just wish some of them were distributed over here. Many local beekeeping suppliers are missing a trick on this one I think as they could easily buy in in bulk and sell on at a nice profit and still be much cheaper for local beekeepers.

Ignoring the name calling in the previous few posts, sorry RAB, but I don't agree that Apiguard and Hivemakers recipe do the same thing. Apiguard is made in such a way that the thymol is released slowly and over a period of time so that the efficacy of the product is higher than that of a 'homemade' alternative. I may be wrong, but I don't think the other constituents of Hivemakers patty do anything like this. I agree that both treatments contain Thymol, but that is where the similarity stops.

Meg

 

[pbh4]

"Refined sugar has been adequate for winter feeds for years and years and years. " the equivalent of saying "We've always done it this way"

Those two statements are not at all equivalent really. I'm not surprised RAB is a bit pissed off.

 

[drstitson]

"Ignoring the name calling in the previous few posts, sorry RAB, but I don't agree that Apiguard and Hivemakers recipe do the same thing. Apiguard is made in such a way that the thymol is released slowly and over a period of time so that the efficacy of the product is higher than that of a 'homemade' alternative. I may be wrong, but I don't think the other constituents of Hivemakers patty do anything like this. I agree that both treatments contain Thymol, but that is where the similarity stops."

apiguard is essentially a fondant patty (albeit with gel component - presumably something simple like gelatine or alginate) heavily dosed with thymol.
ALV is thymol (plus camphor etc) in an inert friable substrate
hivemaker recipe is thymol dissolved in an oil vehicle and held in an inert oasis support.

all horses for courses IMHO.

have used both commercial treatments and tis year am using the HM approach - mostly on grounds of cost - 19 rather than 2-3 hives.

 

[gingerbees]

thanks for the responses everyone, i do hope we can chat and not fall out over the differing opinions.

Really ineresting to see the wide range of knowledge that is out there, of course each to their own thoughts and preferences, but the information is superb. Many thanks

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hivemakers patty do anything like this. I agree that both treatments contain Thymol, but that is where the similarity stops.

Meg

Don't know what you have been reading,but you got it wrong,as i don't make any form of patty and never have. My treatment is an almost identical to apilife-var,slow realease over two week period or more,and was well researched by scientists.......so are your also saying this is a crap treatment. I have also used this as my main varroa treatment since 2002,that would be approx 11,000 treatments,and no losses at all due to varroa,ever,must be doing something to control the mites in an efficient way don't you think.
I have found apiguard to be about the most inefficient of the thymol based products.

 

[psafloyd]

No, I use manufacturer recommended. After all if a large firm (in this case two large firms) spend a lot of time and money researching a product they wish to supply to a limited market, I think you can be reasonably assured that what's knocked up at home (which is what I answered) is the far inferior product.

No necessarily the case, BBG. You can have all the 'proper' stuff and poor execution will undo any advantage. My bees did well on a top up of home made fondant last year.

Just because something is produced commercially doesn't necessarily mean it is any beter than home made recipes. Just look at Mr Kipling, for a start...

 

[psafloyd]

your KISS is based on price - UGH!
I think the thymol analogy is a superb example. Buy in cheaper base items and DIY, or pay out an extortionate amount and buy it all pre-packaged. They both only kill mites if used properly. You pay for the convenience of the preparation and packaging - and quite a lot, too. And it still only kills the mites - and they are just as dead using a made-up recipe, as a bought-in package, but at about a quarter of the outlay.

So - UGH! to you too!

 

[drstitson]

BBG - all the big boys do is take a tried and tested treatment/product and patent the delivery vehicle/mode. also helps if they can then get sole veterinary approval for target markets.

case in point - oxalic acid.

been used in vaporizers or in droplet form for years BUT now chemicals laif (ALV) have managed to get their product - apibioxal (which is just the oxalic-syrup solution that we all argue over each winter in premixed form) - to be the only approved oxalic treatment in italy (and then used under veterinary "supervision").

 

[Hivemaker.]

I think you can be reasonably assured that what's knocked up at home (which is what I answered) is the far inferior product.

That applies to everything then,all the food supplied by supermarkets ect is far supperior than you could produce at home,they cook better food than you can,they sell far better quality honey than you can.

 

[Meg]

Sorry Pete,

I shouldn't have used the word 'patty'. All I meant was, in the case of the thymol treatments, yours is mixed up from other things and not the same as Apiguard. I was not saying it didn't work - and it clearly does. I have my own opinion on Apiguard which is not too high, but someone gave me some, so free versus pay out - no contest - I am using it.

As this topic began on comparing fondants, then that was all I was trying to add into - attempting to get people to compare like with like - and yes, ApilifeVar is probably more similar to yours than Apiguard, but does that not say it all?

Meg

 

[tonybloke]

No, I use manufacturer recommended. After all if a large firm (in this case two large firms) spend a lot of time and money researching a product they wish to supply to a limited market, I think you can be reasonably assured that what's knocked up at home (which is what I answered) is the far inferior product.

well, I sourced a local allotment reared / raised pig, then cured a back leg of it using salt / cider / treacle recipe, soaked for a fortnight, boiled on Monday, and you know what?

Bl**dy Lovely!
Why can't large firms make it taste nice?

and as for all of the stuff I grow on my allotment, which the OH makes lovely meals from, should we just not bother? after all, the major manufacturers must know best, eh?

 

[BBG]

Those two statements are not at all equivalent really. I'm not surprised RAB is a bit pissed off.

So tell me the difference between them, one says we've always done it this way and the other says this has been going on for years and years and years.

???

 

[BBG]

No necessarily the case, BBG. You can have all the 'proper' stuff and poor execution will undo any advantage. My bees did well on a top up of home made fondant last year.

Just because something is produced commercially doesn't necessarily mean it is any beter than home made recipes. Just look at Mr Kipling, for a start...

Glad you have picked up on the fact I was talking about home-made syrup and all the vagaries that well-meaning custodians intent on saving a shilling inflict on their bees. Additional, 'poor execution' inflicts more stress.

Ambrosia isn't made by home-brewers, as far as I know it only comes in standard, uniform form from the manufacturer.

Standard, uniform being the operative words unlike the variable sugar mixes that have been adequate for years and years and years.

 

[oliver90owner]

Originally Posted by pbh4
Those two statements are not at all equivalent really. I'm not surprised RAB is a bit pissed off.


Thank you, pbh4. It is nice to know that some can read what is actually written and do not try to report/distort it as something entirely different, (and even make up stupid lies and post them on the forum).

There is no need to explain the difference. It would be clear to any one who can read properly.

I do hope there are no 'home brewers' out there reading this thread. They, too, might be more than a little miffed at some ***** suggesting all their careful fermentation etc only makes inferior wines/beers,meads, etc. Personally, I have tasted some superb bevvies made by home brewers (not entirely universal, of course - but there will always be some who get it wrong - sometimes again and again and again) very often far superior than equivalently priced shop-bught stuff.

Regards, RAB

 

[BBG]

Originally Posted by pbh4
Those two statements are not at all equivalent really. I'm not surprised RAB is a bit pissed off.


Thank you, pbh4. It is nice to know that some can read what is actually written and do not try to report/distort it as something entirely different, (and even make up stupid lies and post them on the forum).

There is no need to explain the difference. It would be clear to any one who can read properly.

I do hope there are no 'home brewers' out there reading this thread. They, too, might be more than a little miffed at some ***** suggesting all their careful fermentation etc only makes inferior wines/beers,meads, etc. Personally, I have tasted some superb bevvies made by home brewers (not entirely universal, of course - but there will always be some who get it wrong - sometimes again and again and again) very often far superior than equivalently priced shop-bught stuff.

Regards, RAB

There are my original points, ref sugar syrup, in bold and all to the detriment of the bees.


Fatuous name-calling, clan gathering and a second childhood - shabby.

 

[Hombre]

So tell me the difference between them, one says we've always done it this way and the other says this has been going on for years and years and years.

???

I come back from a good holiday with my pal WaxManSmokerBoy in Spain to this . . .

We've always done it this way - invariate, suggests everyone has been doing it, or at least the closed group being referred to.
This has been going on for years and years - anecdotal, some people have been doing this for a long time.

As always gentlemen and ladies, the devil is in the detail. Please play nice.

Thanks Murray for your contribution; as always your sage advice has doubtless dispelled a lot of myths about some of the sugar products available for feeding the bees.

Most small beekeepers don't get to hear about or are not able to take advantages of the offerings available in Denmark,Germany and Belguim in bulk form.

I fear that in the UK, that an early winter could again impact the beet farmers as they await processing by the reduced number of plants in operation by the British Sugar Corporation (are they still called that?).

 

[tonybloke]

an early winter won't impact on beet farmers, it's all grown under licence / contract for the British Sugar Corporation, anyway!!

 

[Beeretired]

We lost a colony last year to the cold. The bees didn't go up to the full contact feeder of Ambrosia syrup. Lots of cold air in an eke which is deep enough for a bucket. This year we'll use fondant and a shallow "thymol eke"