condensation on top of the ply crown board.

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Derekm, you have condensation problems, not me.

But a few yars ago I took a photo. There were large water droplets and some "pools" over top bars.
Reason was that I had 2 cm thick polystyrene board as inner cover. My friend engineer told that covers insulation value is smaller than walls'. Yeas it was. The walls were polystyrene and 3 cm thick.

I had 2 cm wooden board as inner cover on poly nuc. boards were totally wet because of condensation..

With 7 cm thick insulation problems has been away. I do not use feeding hole in the centre of cover. Mice loved them.

No i dont have the problem, you do, because on the evidence you have yourself presented, you dont understand either condensation or insulation or convection, but you think you do.
 
No i dont have the problem, you do, because on the evidence you have yourself presented, you dont understand either condensation or insulation or convection, but you think you do.

Finman keeps bees in Finland, place of long cold winters, I think he understands insulation of bee hives perfectly well. ;)
 
While I understand that those values might be possible, that amount of variation would indicate grossly inadequate air movement, wouldn't it?


As regards temperature:
The bees have the thermostat set at 34C at the centre of the hive. The heat source is effectively the centre of the hive. But from the evidence of 38c at the roof we know there is air movement caused by convection that is causing the bees to pump in extra heat to get to 34C at the centre of the hive. That temperature differential is driving circulation inside the hive.
if you measure on temp on the top of frame, you will see a difference between midday and early morning. Its hotter early in the morning because the bees have had to turn the heat up overnight.
As regards humidity:
The humidity content is a reflection of amount of bee respiration. A lot of bees trying to keep a lot of brood warm will generate a lot of water. For example wall to wall brood in a 19mm wood langstroth needs around 120w thats energy equivalent of 24kg of honey per month a gobsmacking amount
 
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A serious, if rather flippant sounding, point: how have bees survived for so long without poly and temperature gauges?:D
 
A serious, if rather flippant sounding, point: how have bees survived for so long without poly and temperature gauges?:D

They used tree cavities, which not only have several inches of wood, they also have a rotted wood interior, which is mostly air, almost a wood foam. An estimate of the K values of these cavities wills show them to be equal or superior in insulation to commercial poly hives.
 
we all know that combs act as insulators - either with cells full of honey or trapped air. the bees just overwinter in a cluster deep in the structure.

But as well all know cold is not the problem - damp is.

in an open structure as shown moisture will run down outside leaving bees dry.
 
we all know that combs act as insulators - either with cells full of honey or trapped air. the bees just overwinter in a cluster deep in the structure.

But as well all know cold is not the problem - damp is.

in an open structure as shown moisture will run down outside leaving bees dry.


that terrible old song... i do not know those facts.

- Combs do not insulate because the seam is open and heat escapes.
- The insulated walls hinder heat losses. the less wall surface the less heat escapes.
- honey bee needs a tree cavity to live. They do not live in stone caves because stone does not keep heat in the hive.
- cold is a problem in many ways and damp is too. They are not alternatives.
- during cold winters you loose more hives than in mild winter.

- in open structure? i have 1 cm x 10 cm lover entrance and finger size upper entrance in front wall. in the back corners of bottom I have inch size holes that draft keeps back part of bottom dry. Everything else is closed.


I advice you my Brittish friends. You should put wollen shirts on the hives. It keeps humans warm too.

In Finland if we want to dry up something in moist weather, we heat a little that relative moisture comes down. it is relative moisture which keep dry. A warm hive is dry hive. It needs ventilating too that war moist air goes out.


After the first energy crisis we insulated houses too much and ventilated too little. People become sick and houses got mould.

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that terrible old song... i do not know those facts.

- Combs do not insulate because the seam is open and heat escapes.
- The insulated walls hinder heat losses. the less wall surface the less heat escapes.
- honey bee needs a tree cavity to live. They do not live in stone caves because stone does not keep heat in the hive.
- cold is a problem in many ways and damp is too. They are not alternatives.
- during cold winters you loose more hives than in mild winter.

- in open structure? i have 1 cm x 10 cm lover entrance and finger size upper entrance in front wall. In the back corners of bottom I have inch size holes that draft keeps back part of bottom dry. Everything else is closed.


I advice you my Brittish friends. You should put wollen shirts on the hives. It keeps humans warm too.

In Finland if we want to dry up something in moist weather, we heat a little that relative moisture comes down. it is relative moisture which keep dry. A warm hive is dry hive. It needs ventilating too that war moist air goes out.


After the first energy crisis we insulated houses too much and ventilated too little. People become sick and houses got mould.

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You obviously dont why or when an an open mesh floor will ventilate or insulate or lose heat. You fail to give any valid reasons for drilling a hole in the front wall. The only reasons you appear to give you have kept bees for years and Finland is cold and the British know nothing. Your answer to DRTITSON above shows you fail to understand how a comb can insulate.

A Dutchman may ride a bicycle for 70 years and never know anything about the mechanics of rotating bodies
 
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DerekM, may I ask what were you looking for when you started this thread?

Initially it seemed like you wanted a question answered, then it shifted to you stating that you wanted to supply information on the permeability of plywood and then it went to thermal properties of hives and materials and now it seems to be aggressive posts mainly against Finman. Perhaps I have missed something?
 
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According my Nokia navigator it is 1948 km from my soffa to London (with car).
I am not afraid to be right here.

But I know a little better what cold do to hives.
Under snow hives are guite damp. They are in better condition if snow does not cover hives.

I have had simple wall wood hives 45 years and polyhives 24 years.

Damp and condensation or cold are not my problems. Now it is raining here cats and dogs, and I know that those low pressures have come From British Isles.

Bees stand guite much inside condensation. It is not doom to death. Big ice sticks hang often in lower bars of frames.
 
DerekM, may I ask what were you looking for when you started this thread?

Initially it seemed like you wanted a question answered, then it shifted to you stating that you wanted to supply information on the permeability of plywood and then it went to thermal properties of hives and materials and now it seems to be aggressive posts mainly against Finman. Perhaps I have missed something?

I think this is better done by PM
 
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Why to drill a hole i front wall. Any reasons?

40 years ago I had 10 hives wintering under snow.
6 hives died and 4 was alive.
what was the difference?
In alive hives all had small upper entrance open and dead hives had no a hole.
Since that I have used a drill hole.

Read about canadian beekeeping. They too drill holes i front wall.
A hole moves moist respiration air out from the hive.
A hive produce 10 litre respiration water from 25 kg food.
 
Obviously jumping to conclusions?
There is space and ventilation above the insulation.

Think what was meant was, is there space BETWEEN the crownboard and insulation? If not then of course condensation will not be able to disperse.


apologies if already mentioned, got to pick nipper up from school and didnt read whole thread:.(
 
Finman - really helpful reply to counter all those who use the old fashioned matchsticks under the crownboard ventilation approach (giving at least 46 cm2 for air to leave by - and producing a chimney effect whereby cold air is drawn up into the hive as warm air leaves the top.

Your clearly very successful method on closed floor hives uses a top ventilation drilled hole less than 1 cm2 i presume.
 
Your clearly very successful method on closed floor hives uses a top ventilation drilled hole less than 1 cm2 i presume.

i have now polyhives, and bees bite the hole guite big in summer.


Nowadays I put as new a piece of garden spraying pipe with polyurethane glue.
i just checked the pipe dimension. Hole is 15 mm wide. 10 mm is enough for wintering but when bees move via the hole with their loads, 10 mm makes a big rush in front of the hole.


It is very normal that there is condensation water and rain water on the bottom during winter.
When the floor is a little bit slanting, water drills out. But it is not nice to look at porriage of dead bees in spring. Bees stand many things.
 

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