Comb on frames sticking together?

[Aza]

Hey everyone!

i’m new here. We got our first hive in june. We started following classes last year but they got cancelled due to covid-19.

everything was fine, then during our summer dearth, we started feeding syrup to our bees(first open feeding, then noticed we where feeding all the bees in the area burning through 30 pounds of sugar a day, so we changed go top feeding, which is going great). However, we recently noticed out hive started expanding rapidly, amount of bees and filled frames. At that point, the frames started sticking together, bees connecting the comb on several locations. We have an 11 frame langstroth hive. We’re not sure what to do, this is causing the expections to be extremely difficult, makes the bees quite agressive because it keeps breaking their comb, spilling honey and sugar syrup all over and squishing bees trying to get the frames apart with our hivetool

any advice? If you need more information feel free to ask

 

[bobthecob]

It sounds like your hive is absolutely stuffed with syrup. This can cause problems for the queen as she has no room to lay. It's still only August. If your hive has plenty of syrup in, stop feeding immediately. Give them a break from it. You an always start again.

Also, you don't really need to inspect frequently (or at all) at this time of year. They are very unlikely to swarm (especially if you ease off the syrup).

I know that, as a new beekeeper, you want to be looking at the bees as much as possible - I did too. However, give them a break from all outside interference for a month. They will thank you for it! If, in a fortnight, the weather forecast is foul, you can always put some fondant on. They are a bit calmer with fondant than they are with syrup - they will still eat it and store it, but in a slightly less frenzied fashion.

 

[Aza]

It sounds like your hive is absolutely stuffed with syrup. This can cause problems for the queen as she has no room to lay. It's still only August. If your hive has plenty of syrup in, stop feeding immediately. Give them a break from it. You an always start again.

Also, you don't really need to inspect frequently (or at all) at this time of year. They are very unlikely to swarm (especially if you ease off the syrup).

I know that, as a new beekeeper, you want to be looking at the bees as much as possible - I did too. However, give them a break from all outside interference for a month. They will thank you for it! If, in a fortnight, the weather forecast is foul, you can always put some fondant on. They are a bit calmer with fondant than they are with syrup - they will still eat it and store it, but in a slightly less frenzied fashion.

Can i fix the comb somehow to ease inspections later on, Because when they fix it, they just stick it back together.

also on the room part, we figured as much about a month ago and added our second broodbox, which isn’t filled yet, but the frames are almost completely drawn out by the bees. Should we remove it before winter if we stop feeding syrup?

 

[bobthecob]

also on the room part, we figured as much about a month ago and added our second broodbox, which isn’t filled yet, but the frames are almost completely drawn out by the bees. Should we remove it before winter if we stop feeding syrup?

So you have an 11 frame brood box full of bees/brood/stores, with an 11 frame brood box above with just empty drawn comb in? Right?

 

[bobthecob]

Can i fix the comb somehow to ease inspections later on, Because when they fix it, they just stick it back together.

It's hard to comment without seeing what you mean by sticking them together. Are the frames definitely spaced correctly? Have they built new part-sheets of comb between frames?

 

[Murox]

Glad you have stopped open feeding.

Are your brood frames Hoffman style i.e. self spacing or do they have need plastic/metal spacers on the lugs? Also which size Langstroth frame are you using as brood frames ? And did you /are you using foundation?

How many frames are filled completely with stores? How many frames are filled with brood?

 

[Aza]

So you have an 11 frame brood box full of bees/brood/stores, with an 11 frame brood box above with just empty drawn comb in? Right?

Yes, bottom Box has a third of a frame thats still open, rest is capped or had brood in it.

It's hard to comment without seeing what you mean by sticking them together. Are the frames definitely spaced correctly? Have they built new part-sheets of comb between frames?

They are spaced with the standard spacing metals that came with the box, so i assume that hAs the correct distance. Not part sheets. The space in between is about 6mm(rough estimate) and on several spots of the frame(more op top than on bottom, but some frames have some connections on bottom too). The connections between the combs have hourglass shapes(being thickest where they are connected to the frames) and it has filled honeycomb holes across the entire hourglass shape

Glad you have stopped open feeding.

Are your brood frames Hoffman style i.e. self spacing or do they have need plastic/metal spacers on the lugs? Also which size Langstroth frame are you using as brood frames ? And did you /are you using foundation?

How many frames are filled completely with stores? How many frames are filled with brood?

Not sure on the type of hive, live in belgium and its called a simplex hive here.

middle 5 frames have brood, they are not connected, the others are all filled with capped suger syrup or honey. Only left 3 frames have the sticking together issue

 

[Murox]

Do you mean "spacing metals " like this

 

[bobthecob]

Yes, bottom Box has a third of a frame thats still open, rest is capped or had brood in it.

I think if there is nothing at all in the top brood box (apart from drawn comb) then I would just take it off. It's too big a space to have above the brood nest (i.e. they will lose heat up into it) and trying to get them to fill a whole brood box with syrup at this point in the year is going to cause you other problems. So personally, I would take that box off. As long as they have syrup in the bottom box, given them a week off feeding, then assess whether they need some fondant or heavy syrup in a couple of weeks.

As for the spacing I think Murox has identified the problem here. If you are using castellated spacers like that then those are meant for honey supers, not brood boxes. The spacing is too wide for brood frames (honey cells can be made very long, but brood cells are only as long as the length of a bee larvae) so they will fill the gap between frames with extra comb. Don't try to tear the frames apart now. This is a project for spring and will require you to encourage them to move up into a new, properly spaced brood box so you can extract and clean up the brood frames in the current box. You can't do that in winter.

 

[Aza]

Glad you have stopped open feeding.

Are your brood frames Hoffman style i.e. self spacing or do they have need plastic/metal spacers on the lugs? Also which size Langstroth frame are you using as brood frames ? And did you /are you using foundation?

How many frames are filled completely with stores? How many frames are filled with brood?

Do you mean "spacing metals " like this View attachment 21858

yes, it has something like that

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would go further than Bob’s suggestion of taking the top box away. I would remove a couple of frames of stores from the bottom brood box and substitute them with drawn empty frames from the top, putting them each side of where the brood is. AND take the top one away

 

[Murox]

Ahh - haa.
Those are not usually used in the brood box as they tend to have a wider spacing and are used in the supers with drawn comb ready to receive nectar/honey.
Go onto the Thornes website and look through the types of frame. You have probably got hoffman deeps in the brood box. They are self spacing and will give you the correct gap between frames. Sounds as though the bigger gap between the frames is causing you problems. Is there another more experienced beekeeper near you who you could ask for assistance ?

Edit - Ok thought you were UK based so do not go to Thornes website. Do you know the Bijenhof website ? is this the sort of box you are using?

 

[Aza]

I think if there is nothing at all in the top brood box (apart from drawn comb) then I would just take it off. It's too big a space to have above the brood nest (i.e. they will lose heat up into it) and trying to get them to fill a whole brood box with syrup at this point in the year is going to cause you other problems. So personally, I would take that box off. As long as they have syrup in the bottom box, given them a week off feeding, then assess whether they need some fondant or heavy syrup in a couple of weeks.

As for the spacing I think Murox has identified the problem here. If you are using castellated spacers like that then those are meant for honey supers, not brood boxes. The spacing is too wide for brood frames (honey cells can be made very long, but brood cells are only as long as the length of a bee larvae) so they will fill the gap between frames with extra comb. Don't try to tear the frames apart now. This is a project for spring and will require you to encourage them to move up into a new, properly spaced brood box so you can extract and clean up the brood frames in the current box. You can't do that in winter.

Thank you! I’ll do that!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ahh - haa.
Those are not usually used in the brood box as they tend to have a wider spacing and are used in the supers with drawn comb ready to receive nectar/honey.
Go onto the Thornes website and look through the types of frame. You have probably got hoffman deeps in the brood box. They are self spacing and will give you the correct gap between frames. Sounds as though the bigger gap between the frames is causing you problems. Is there another more experienced beekeeper near you who you could ask for assistance ?

Difficult to space them on proper Hoffman spaces if they are stuffed with stores though.
Maybe best left till Spring and A Bailey or just a trim of empty frames?

 

[Murox]

Difficult to space them on proper Hoffman spaces if they are stuffed with stores though.
Maybe best left till Spring and A Bailey or just a trim of empty frames?

 

[Aza]

Will do that! Thanks so much for all the helpful advice!

 

[bobthecob]

Will do that!

PS: The other reason why you don't want those metal castellated things in your brood box is that the nicest way to inspect a brood frame is to slide it horizontally away from the neighbouring frame before lifting it up. The castellations stop you doing that.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Maybe it would help if Aza told everyone where they live?

 

[Arfermo]

PS: The other reason why you don't want those metal castellated things in your brood box is that the nicest way to inspect a brood frame is to slide it horizontally away from the neighbouring frame before lifting it up. The castellations stop you doing that.

Right from day one I have always used castellations and my RBI pal doing inspections made it clear that it is solely matter of choice. Some claim that one risks damaging the queen during inspections due having to lift the frames a fraction - 5mm?. Providing one removes the first frame completely to make room, the hive tool can tilt each frame to avoid that problem - but I have never had a problem anyway.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Right from day one I have always used castellations and my RBI pal doing inspections made it clear that it is solely matter of choice. Some claim that one risks damaging the queen during inspections due having to lift the frames a fraction - 5mm?. Providing one removes the first frame completely to make room, the hive tool can tilt each frame to avoid that problem - but I have never had a problem anyway.

I hate them in the broods but you're right, there's a knack to using them. Doesn't Roger Patterson run his colonies with castellations?