Colony on double brood

[Mogs1]

I have a national hive on double brood, bees on all frames and quite full.

They have become quite aggressive so I was hoping to re queen (or is there another reason they have become angry) eggs in the frames so the queen must be there somewhere.

Would it work if I grabbed the top brood box and put it on a mesh floor in the same apiary and roof and closed the original hive up?

Obviously the queen would be in one of these. The queenless then would start drawing cells

Was going to kill the original queen and introduce 2 queens in the hives anyway as soon as I can find dark quiet queens.

Or would there be any other simple splits I can do in the same apiary?

Thank you

 

[Sutty]

Is this the only time they have been defensive? If so maybe look for other reasons like end of a flow.
Do you have any other hives of friendlier bees you could use to requeen them?

 

[Mogs1]

As soon as the weather turned nice last Thursday they have become terrible, following us for 100 yards and even attacking us when we're nowhere near them. Something has to change

 

[Sutty]

As soon as the weather turned nice last Thursday they have become terrible, following us for 100 yards and even attacking us when we're nowhere near them. Something has to change

Hmm, could you have missed a swarm and they are requeening?
If so you should go through them and reduce to one cell, though I'm aware this is not a welcome prospect!

 

[Sutty]

Though sounds like they need a new queen anyway!

 

[Mogs1]

I could have, but with the amount of bees in there means that hardly any have gone. But I've found eggs and fresh larvae in there?

Is there a simple move I can do to split them down before delving in at least then I'll increase my hives as that is my original plan. And also will have less bees attacking

 

[Sutty]

I'm just thinking out loud here so take it all with a pinch of salt & check my thinking!

If you have eggs then the queen has been there recently.
However don't underestimate how busy a hive can look after swarming!
As to the hive (is it your only one?), you could buy a couple of queens, then move the 2 halves 3' away each, place an empty hive with a frame of young brood and drawn comb), foundation on the original site to take the flying bees.
One of the 2 halves will raise queens cells, as will the flying bees on the original site.
You will have far less bees to search through to find the queen in the other.
Remove the queen and the EQCs in the split boxes and introduce the new queens.
Once they are accepted you have to decide what to do with the remaining hive on the original site: either remove the frame of EQCs and add a third new queen, or remove it completely and let them enter the other hives. Or remove the EQCs and unite with one of the others.

As I said, just thinking out loud....

 

[ericbeaumont]

kill the original queen and introduce 2 queens in the hives anyway as soon as I can find dark quiet queens

Strong colonies are less likely in season to accept new queens, so best make up queenless nucs and introduce to those first, then when laying, to the BBs.

become quite aggressive

they have become angry

Are they foraging on OSR? That has a reputation for causing temporary bad temper.

I agree with Sutty: bees are neither aggressive nor angry, but show only varying degrees of defensiveness. This is an important distinction which will not only affect your approach to a colony, but also influence public perception of bees, for which reason it would be better to avoid descriptions such as bees attacking.

put it on a mesh floor

Nothing special about a mesh floor; solid equally good.

can find dark quiet queens

Don't judge by colour but by reputation of the strain for temper, productivity and health. Avoid F1 purity as subsequent open-mated daughters may bring you back to square one in terms of temper. In this context Buckfast (a recipe bee) would fit well.

As soon as the weather turned nice last Thursday they have become terrible, following us for 100 yards

Have you been in since then and seen eggs? As Sutty suggested, they may be in-between queens.

 

[Mogs1]

No osr near us for miles.

Apologies the hive is very defensive I should of written.

Will be checking today for eggs.

Any idea of someone that has queens this early?

Thanks

 

[ericbeaumont]

queens this early

Not that early; selection from many reputable suppliers:
https://www.bshoneybees.co.uk/queens
https://www.blackmountainhoney.co.uk/product-page/uk-f1-buckfast-mated-queen-2024
http://www.exmoorbeesandbeehives.co.uk/buckfastqueens.htm
https://www.bhpqueens.co.uk/

 

[Mogs1]

Went through them today, brood pattern a bit scattered. A lot of drone brood present and could see fresh eggs in a few frames.

I tried to find the queen by putting them down through a qx but no avail.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Sutty]

Was there just one egg in each cell and positioned right at the bottom?
Laying workers often lay multiple in a cell and quite often on the sides.

 

[Mogs1]

Was there just one egg in each cell and positioned right at the bottom?
Laying workers often lay multiple in a cell and quite often on the sides.

Now your asking, pretty sure it was just one egg but can not be certain

 

[Sutty]

If just one egg per cell I'd just leave them alone for a bit.
Next time you inspect look for where the eggs are and whether the workers have elongated worker comb with a domed drone capping (sign of LW or drone-laying queen).

 

[user 819]

Went through them today, brood pattern a bit scattered. A lot of drone brood present and could see fresh eggs in a few frames.

I tried to find the queen by putting them down through a qx but no avail.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks

Any sealed worker brood seen ?
If only Drone brood could be DLQ, really poor brood pattern may be LW's and QL.

Hence the temperatment change.

No pics, we can't see what you are seeing .

 

[Mogs1]

Some sealed worker brood there yes but nothing compared to my other hives.

 

[user 819]

Some ?
Ratio of worker brood to drone brood ?

 

[Sutty]

Some sealed worker brood there yes but nothing compared to my other hives.

Likely a queen present (assuming trying to sieve them hasn't removed her).
I'd give it a while undisturbed and see if they calm down if you can.

 

[Mogs1]

Some ?
Ratio of worker brood to drone brood ?

30% worker rest drone id say roughly

 

[Erichalfbee]

30% worker rest drone id say roughly

Failing queen
Running out of sperm