Colony Losses

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Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
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Location
Norfolk
Hive Type
Langstroth
Number of Hives
5
Hi. My local association are reporting quite substantial losses from quite a few members. Some very experienced. I am just wondering how wide spread this is. How are your bees doing? Probably just 'one of those years' rather than something sinister going on.
 
Possibly. I did wonder how they would know. I have no idea about mine due to them not flying in cold weather. We haven't had a warmer flying day in quite a while.
 
I suspect one reason could be a fairly new phenomenon:
the 'fondant factor'
I've noticed over the years that we've moved from feeding fondant in late winter being virtually unheard of, through to using it occasionally as 'emergency feeding' and now it being almost mandatory to feed fondant after Christmas. This, in my mind has led to people skimping on autumn feeding and looking at/depending on later fondant feeding as a necessary topup. This would lead to many being caught out with colonies burning up stores at different rates and starving out or being caught out with isolation starvation.
 
I suspect one reason could be a fairly new phenomenon:
the 'fondant factor'
I've noticed over the years that we've moved from feeding fondant in late winter being virtually unheard of, through to using it occasionally as 'emergency feeding' and now it being almost mandatory to feed fondant after Christmas. This, in my mind has led to people skimping on autumn feeding and looking at/depending on later fondant feeding as a necessary topup. This would lead to many being caught out with colonies burning up stores at different rates and starving out or being caught out with isolation starvation.
Strange with fondant being more expensive and a faff. I wonder if they placed above a feed hole. I'm not sure if the bees would be willing to move to the feed hole in the low temperatures we've been having
 
How are your bees doing?
My entire batch of nucleus (50+) stocks are doing well (not a single loss) - a mix I'd created in September, SDI, II Queens and open mated . All fed fondant like the rest of the main stocks but done early autumn and after the Ivy (if needed). Some of these were only a few frames of bees/brood back in September.

Unsure why fondant is a faff or expensive?. Done correctly it's super simple and works fine.
 
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I agree, fondant is cheaper kg/kg than invert and doesn’t have the hassle of mixing syrup!
Some of the vids I see dropped on Youtube around these topics by *experts* makes me wonder if they actually keep bees ;)

Name drop - Peter Edwards was doing this 30 years ago because it works (he lives near me).

Managed to get the price for 12.5kg down to just under £10 box for the last load, should be cheaper this year.
 
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I don't disagree with JBM's comments about the potentially deleterious effects of some recent husbandry practices (like reliance on fondant feeding). The way I look at it is that, all things being equal - and barring a catastrophic/irrecoverable event (like Queen loss) - EVERY colony which, in Autumn, is 1) well housed 2) strong/well balanced 3) well provisioned 4) disease free, and 5) having low varroa loads (i.e. having been treated successfully) will overwinter OK. Why wouldn't it ?

QED (assuming you subscribe to that blunt assessment), any abnormal losses will be normally be attributable to one of a) inadequate stores, b) disease (e.g. nosema) or c) varroa load

I don't think that's too much of a generalisation, and, when I have experienced losses (including one particularly bad year), I have usually been able to pinpoint the cause, which has either usually been i) nosema, or ii) bad beekeeping (weak colonies going into winter, ineffective treatment, underprovisioning).

Mostly, when I speak to other beekeepers (and I do speak regularly to very many members of our Association), I find that the tales I hear about winter losses are broadly in line with my own experiences. I guess that these might normally vary from the 10% to 25% levels depending on the year, and my guess would be that - in statistical terms, the standard deviation would be low (i.e. most people hovering around those averages).

So far, some of the chats I have had this winter with members (many very experienced) are quite alarming. It is not uncommon for me to hear of total apiary losses. That is completely at odds with my own current experience, where I have 12 colonies (7 hives/5 nucs) which all look to be faring well.

That's not me being smug or boastful, but just a way of explaining that I would not be surprised if we come to learn of higher than average reported losses this year, but possibly with a radically higher standard deviation. That is to say, some beekeepers in a locality experiencing low/normal losses, and others, inexplicably, being hammered.

Maybe twas ever thus. However, I would have to hope that the NBU alarm bells would ring loudly in that event, as the root cause would clearly need understanding, and there are potentially other correlations and inferences to be made from in the related survey data - e.g. treatment methods / timings, quite aside from field investigations.

I guess this is what the US agencies (assuming they have escaped the cull) are now doing to get to grips with the spike in "CCD" over there.

It would not surprise me at all to discover, for example, that those experiencing dramatic losses here are doing so due to varroosis caused (in spite of the beekeeper treating 'as usual') by resistance to Amitraz (e.g. Apivar) or to pyrethroids (like Apistan), with those closer to the average treating with e.g. organic acids.

Time will tell, I guess.
 
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I don't disagree with JBM's comments about the potentially deleterious effects of some recent husbandry practices (like reliance on fondant feeding). The way I look at it is that, all things being equal - and barring a catastrophic/irrecoverable event (like Queen loss) - EVERY colony which, in Autumn, is 1) well housed 2) strong/well balanced 3) well provisioned 4) disease free, and 5) having low varroa loads (i.e. having been treated successfully) will overwinter OK. Why wouldn't it ?

QED (assuming you subscribe to that blunt assessment), any abnormal losses will be normally be attributable to one of a) inadequate stores, b) disease (e.g. nosema) or c) varroa load

I don't think that's too much of a generalisation, and, when I have experienced losses (including one particularly bad year), I have usually been able to pinpoint the cause, which has either usually been i) nosema, or ii) bad beekeeping (weak colonies going into winter, ineffective treatment, underprovisioning).

Mostly, when I speak to other beekeepers (and I do speak regularly to very many members of our Association), I find that the tales I hear about winter losses are broadly in line with my own experiences. I guess that these might normally vary from the 10% to 25% levels depending on the year, and my guess would be that - in statistical terms, the standard deviation would be low (i.e. most people hovering around those averages).

So far, some of the chats I have had this winter with members (many very experienced) are quite alarming. It is not uncommon for me to hear of total apiary losses. That is completely at odds with my own current experience, where I have 12 colonies (7 hives/5 nucs) which all look to be faring well.

That's not me being smug or boastful, but just a way of explaining that I would not be surprised if we come to learn of higher than average reported losses this year, but possibly with a radically higher standard deviation. That is to say, some beekeepers in a locality experiencing low/normal losses, and others, inexplicably, being hammered.

Maybe twas ever thus. However, I would have to hope that the NBU alarm bells would ring loudly in that event, as the root cause would clearly need understanding, and there are potentially other correlations and inferences to be made from in the related survey data - e.g. treatment methods / timings, quite aside from field investigations.

I guess this is what the US agencies (assuming they have escaped the cull) are now doing to get to grips with the spike in "CCD" over there.

It would not surprise me at all to discover, for example, that those experiencing dramatic losses here are doing so due to varroosis caused (in spite of the beekeeper treating 'as usual') by resistance to Amitraz (e.g. Apivar) or to pyrethroids (like Apistan), with those closer to the average treating with e.g. organic acids.

Time will tell, I guess.
I am sure you will analyse the circumstances that lead to losses of those you speak with, what you discover could be very helpful
 
I am sure you will analyse the circumstances that lead to losses of those you speak with, what you discover could be very helpful
I will try, for sure... But many beekeepers will ascribe losses to spurious reasons, without challenging themselves to find the true cause.

One such chap, whose (long-standing) apiary is by a watercourse, and who has had a total loss (5 colonies), believes it to be down to 'damp'.

Assuming the hives were sound, I would say unlikely. Was the same site not similarly damp last year? Can a strong cohort not manage humidity?

Better for him to look more closely at e.g. Varroa and Nosema as causes, but the latter requires the desire to get stuff under a microscope, and the former both an informed appraisal of all the visual cues, and an objective, critical view of your treatment regime.

But yes, the truth is out there.
 
it's still the middle of winter, if they are already constantly fiddling around in their hives - maybe that's the reason?
Why would you need to fiddle? a quick weigh heft and then a listen to the side of the should be enough.

Colony’s this time of year should have fondant as direct above the cluster as possible preferably on the frames or using qx under an eke and cb
 
Yes, and here are the photos of how he does it.
Yeah the thinking there was to encourage folk to use Google (it's the first result) and throws up lots of other useful info, including the search on here - Peter Little mentions it too (works fine).
 
Yeah the thinking there was to encourage folk to use Google (it's the first result) and throws up lots of other useful info, including the search on here - Peter Little mentions it too (works fine).
a great man pete little was, I learned loads from him - he is sadly missed I also miss our conversations about gardening mostly
 
It would not surprise me at all to discover, for example, that those experiencing dramatic losses here are doing so due to varroosis caused (in spite of the beekeeper treating 'as usual') by resistance to Amitraz (e.g. Apivar) or to pyrethroids (like Apistan), with those closer to the average treating with e.g. organic acids.
And what is even more surprising are the folk selling VSH Queens while at the same time pumping out YouTube content pushing these heavy treatments with their own stocks.
 
All mine are OK so far, including a tiny colony dummied down to 3 frames in a polynuc. However the real danger period is now and next month when brood rearing ramps up.
I use fondant, but only in an emergency, if I got my feeding in autumn wrong. ( Fondant on 1 main hive, plus the nuc)
 
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