Collapsed colony - what should I do

[Ed Woods]

My strongest colony entered Winter with a brood box and two supers full of bees - both supers were full of stores. They were fed - treated for Varroa - I thought it would survive the Winter - my weaker colonies made it OK.

When I examined it two weeks ago there was just a frame of bees and perhaps 20 or 30 brood. Most of the stores were untouched and there were thousands of dead bees at the bottom of the hive. There were signs of chilled brood. I thought the Queen had died as there was no sign of her.

On Monday fellow Methwold beekeper visited and I opened up al my hives for her to examine - I opened up my domed hive last - 2 supers of full stores and no bees - a few frames in the brood box containing a handful of bees - but about 50 or 60 brood and at the centre of a clump of bees was the Queen who appeared alive and well and laying eggs.

What should I do to try and save this colony? I was thinking of transferring the surviving bees, the Queen and the frame containing the brood together with some frames of stores and a frame feeder full of syrup to a Nuc box and add a frame of brood from another of my hives.

Thoughts help and advise would be appreciated. Is it worth trying to save this colony? The Queen is a 2010 girl.

 

[VEG]

Could be too much space get them into a nuc and see how they do

 

[Hivemaker.]

Not worth messing with,shake them out and clean up the equipment ready for some more bees.

 

[REDWOOD]

I would like to know why your colony collapsed, would it be disease, queen mites, poison, have you had them checked ?

 

[Ed Woods]

No signs of AFB or EFB - no signs of Nosemia or any other disease - when I treated for Varroa there was a large initial drop but this reduced to 1 or 2 per day when I treated 2 weeks later. Entered Winter the strongest colony - only differance was this hive the frames were facing back to front rather than side to side. The majority of stores are untouched and still capped. I removed the Queen excluder so the bees could travel with the Queen. This was my suicidal colony when we had snow with hundreds of bees flying out and dying in the snow ended up jamming snow into the entrance.

Two of the brood frames did have signs of wax moth.

 

[Hivemaker.]

no signs of Nosemia

You tested a sample of around 30 bees for nosema, using a microscope?

Many bees flying out never to return,like in ceranae....were there any crawlers as well,like in paralysis.

 

[bignikki]

Sounds like nosema to me as well. "Starvation in the midst of plenty"

 

[Midland Beek]

You would tend to think along the lines of 'Nosema disease'. Some might say good riddance and say that you are better putting your efforts into your surviving colonies.

You could try to get them into a nuc. If you were really keen the queen could be introduced to any nuc of bees, if you knew how to introduce her, that is.

 

[RoseCottage]

Hi,
Strangely familiar thread....here's mine from last year:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9830

So you could go our route which has resulted in strong thriving colonies, which even gave us a little honey last year, or take Hivemaker's view (which is based on hundreds of years of actual experience and practicality).

I cannot say what your bees died of. In our case nosema wasn't a factor rather poor hive positioning and cold weather.

At least before you decide you have an outcome to a very similar situation to read,

All the best,
Sam

 

[itma]

I would like to know why your colony collapsed, would it be disease, queen mites, poison, have you had them checked ?

No signs of AFB or EFB - no signs of Nosemia or any other disease - when I treated for Varroa there was a large initial drop but this reduced to 1 or 2 per day when I treated 2 weeks later. Entered Winter the strongest colony ...

That sounds to me as though it could be an unsuccessful Varroa treatment.
And as per lots of other threads, strong colonies do seem to be the most vulnerable to an incompletely dealt-with Varroa problem. The good Dr has opined that it might be to do with them managing to brood longer, so providing more opportunity for Varroa multiplication.

What mite drop did you get when you checked after the end of your treatment?

It would seem that the bees had an Autumn treatment (when? with what?) and no mid winter treatment.
Was Varroa drop counted during the winter?

/ Action? Move to nuc, test, treat, feed and then decide whether she has a future.

 

[Cazza]

This was my suicidal colony when we had snow with hundreds of bees flying out and dying in the snow ended up jamming snow into the entrance.
QUOTE

I worry when I have a colony like this over the winter. I wonder if Nosema is the cause of this behaviour?

Cazza

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If you wanted to try to keep it going, put the bees in a nuc and shake in some nurse bees from another colony. Nurse bees are the ones left on a frame after you've given it a shake.

 

[Polyanwood]

I agree with itma... that is a very high varroa drop and is reason enough for a colony to perish.

Good Luck let us know what you decide to do.

 

[Ed Woods]

I now believe is was Nosema that killed most of them off.

Im going to rescue the Queen, the frame of brood and as many bees as possible. Will place in a Nuc witha frame of brood and some nurse bees from another of my hives - will add a feeder with some syrup and a frame or two of sealed stores.

I have two supers and brood box of frames and sealed stores - should I stirp the lot and throw it away and boil the frames to reuse 0r just chuck the lot away? And what should I do to clean the hive?

 

[bignikki]

Adding more bees/brood may just be delaying the inevitable.
Though you can treat with fumidil for nosema-- you can fumigate hive with acetic acid. But it wont kill spores in sealed stores. Chuck the lot away and scorch the hive? Though boiling the frames would be ok too.
Nosema has been a very real problem with me for the last few years. I'm starting too think that it's best to just kill off any colony that goes down with it and steam the whole hive.
The man at maisimoar said the best thing he ever did for nosema was to burn everything in the hive, but it's alright for him -- he has got as many frames and foundation as he wants!
An other thing I've noticed is that bees cant take syrup down if the're infected.
Good luck.

 

[psafloyd]

You say you had tWo supers on. You didn't have the QE on as well, did you?

Sorry, saw your follow up post.

 

[itma]

I now believe is was Nosema that killed most of them off.

Have you tested them? / I ask because of the word "believe".

What Varroa drops have been measured after the end of your Autumn treatment?

 

[The Riviera Kid]

I had exactly this problem too, except that I didn't have supers of food on through the winter. Clearly though they didn't starve as, like the OP said, there were lots of stores. I too had an apparantly undamaged queen... and on the basis of suggestions on here and other people, I gave up with them. I tried putting sealed brood in from another hive and they weren't able to keep them all warm so about 25% died in their cells.

In the end the colony collapsed and the cold got them before I could put them to sleep. Scorched the hive and now fumigating the whole lot with acetic acid.

Good luck!