Clipped queens, one wing or two?

[youngyoungs]

Awesome collective, I need your wisdom on the subject of queen clipping.

I've started this year to clip my queens, but have only been clipping one wing. I thought this meant the queen couldn't fly and in the unlikely event that my swarm management techniques didn't work, she would remain very close to the hive and the flying bees would return to the hive.

Yesterday I collected a swarm on the ground about 30 yds away from my hives, (over a hedge and in the next field) with one of my clipped queens and plenty of flying bees.

My questions are:- How far can a clipped queen fly and should I be clipping both wings not just one?

Thanks

 

[Stiffy]

The idea is to stop them flying too far, one wing should suffice. Clipping two risks the hive rejecting her as damaged.
S

 

[Apple]

Old school wisdom was to clip just a small portion of one wing, thereby making her aerodynamically unbalanced and unable to fly very far.

There is no need to clip young queens as they are unlikely to swarm in first season, unless you keep Ferrari hybrids that seem to swarm even in late summer, I clip queens in the Spring.

Also with all these new imported virus one should ensure the clippers are sterilised after each use.


James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is no need to clip young queens as they are unlikely to swarm in first season

 

[Jimy Dee]

I don't believe in clipping wings at all. For experience all that happened was that I missed the first swarm (where the bees left, clipped queen fell to the ground and died and the swarm returned to the hive). A few days later the bees swarmed again with a new virgin queen and guess what nature won. So much for clipping wings. I think it is a waste of time. Think about what is going to happen when she leaves with the swarm or more importantly what swarm prevention method you are going to adopt. Depending on catching swarms is not optimal as a hive management method. If you are intent on doing something like an artificial swarm - clipping is another waste of time. Just think this through. Anyway why needlessly injure a creature - you depend on her for everything and why damage her ?

 

[kazmcc]

How many times have I heard that and how many times has it been proven wrong!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't believe in clipping wings at all. For experience all that happened was that I missed the first swarm (where the bees left, clipped queen fell to the ground and died and the swarm returned to the hive). A few days later the bees swarmed again with a new virgin queen and guess what nature won. So much for clipping wings.

Clipping wings doesn't mean you don't have to bother inspecting, it just gives you a few days leeway to get in and avoid losing a swarm. Think things through

 

[joctcl]

I clipped when I got the confidence and could find the queen, I don't bother now as yep you gain a couple of days but I just think we do enough to contrive these little things to suit our own means without mutilation as well, wow I'm starting to sound like a tree hugger!
My advice perform better, more frequent inspections in high season and plan plan plan.
They will still get the better of you of course!

 

[Apple]

Of course there is as always an alternative

Some time ago I was given a swarm prevention device consisting of a small ferrous metal disc that was glued to the back of the queen, a magnetic strip was provided to affix to the hive entrance to which the swarming queen would become firmly stuck to should she venture through it!

My colonies rarely swarm as I have selected from non swarmy bees and maintain high swarm prevention management techniques. Therefore I now do not need to clip. I would not wish to retain such a queen for breeding purposes.

Not to distract from the Original Post, but clip just the tip of one wing... despite the misguided thoughts of some on this forum, clipping does NOT prevent swarming, but may save your colony of bees ( that will return to the colony to swarm again in 16 days or so!)


James

 

[joctcl]

Magnets and magnetic fields in a beehive, bees are very sensitive to that sort of thing, I need to find a tree to hug

 

[Hivemaker.]

clipping does NOT prevent swarming, but may save your colony of bees ( that will return to the colony to swarm again in 16 days or so!)

Providing all the queen cells have been destroyed and they still have eggs or very young brood, otherwise they could be gone with a virgin queen in just a couple of days.

 

[youngyoungs]

I am trying to take small steps forward in my beekeeping. I am also doing my best to inspect regularly and manage the swarming instinct. My queens do seem to want to swarm more than once even in their first year, (in fact, I haven't got a hive which still has one of last years queens in it).

In this case, it took me by surprise that she had got so far on one full wing and the bees had stayed with her.

In summary It sounds like, if beekeepers do clip, they just clip one wing.

 

[Arfermo]

I am trying to take small steps forward in my beekeeping. I am also doing my best to inspect regularly and manage the swarming instinct. My queens do seem to want to swarm more than once even in their first year, (in fact, I haven't got a hive which still has one of last years queens in it).QUOTE]

Ditto. But very swarmy this year - and I clip to minimise it, but it hasn't helped much this particular year. Will continue "mutilating" though, including cutting out QCs unless required for other purposes. Don't see a problem. Tree hugger I'm not willing to be.

 

[joctcl]

@young yep it's one, be confident in doing it and practice on a few drones first.

 

[ratcatcher]

I don't believe in clipping wings at all. For experience all that happened was that I missed the first swarm (where the bees left, clipped queen fell to the ground and died and the swarm returned to the hive). A few days later the bees swarmed again with a new virgin queen and guess what nature won. So much for clipping wings. I think it is a waste of time. Think about what is going to happen when she leaves with the swarm or more importantly what swarm prevention method you are going to adopt. Depending on catching swarms is not optimal as a hive management method. If you are intent on doing something like an artificial swarm - clipping is another waste of time. Just think this through. Anyway why needlessly injure a creature - you depend on her for everything and why damage her ?

your looking at the reason for clipping wrong, your hoping that someone spots the swarm and tells you, the queen falls to the ground, your bees return, and you then have the extra time to inspect the hive and carry out splits

I am happy to clip bees that are at home in the garden, but those in my woodland, complete waste of time, as no one there to report swarms, much easier to just place out lots of bait hives

 

[jd101k2000]

My understanding for clipping.

The most frequently that most bee keepers can inspect is every 7 days (they have a day job).

Charged queen cell (larva floating in royal jelly) is 3 days since egg was laid.

Day that cell will be capped (and swarm normally leaves - I know they can leave before this) is day 8.

That only gives the bee keeper 5 days to spot a charged queen cell.

----

With clipping the old queen may leave on day 5, but she will most likely die in the field and the swarm will return.

Swarm cannot then leave until the virgin is ready to leave. That is after she has emerged and 'hardened off'.

This means that a bee keeper can keep to inspections every 7 days, keep the day job, and not lose swarms (as long as s/he does not miss a queen cell).

 

[Jimy Dee]

Alright - if u really want to clip. Catch your queen , go in doors to your house and clip her there with no other bees. If she flies from your fingers she will generally fly to the window so make sure it is closed. use bare hands as she will not sting you. a nail clippers is often easier than a sissors for some people. Practise on drones. Return her quickly. You might as well mark her as your at it. Of course I think it is alot of risk and trouble for nothing, but we all have our own beliefs. Best of luck.

 

[joctcl]

I clipped by using old style pressdown cages directly onto the comb, she generally reversed into it and very sharp scissors.
Having tried both methods for 3 or 4 years, from personal experience I don't feel there is a huge difference and you are perfectly correct it gives a couple of days but if the colony has itchy feet, it has itchy feet and is going to swarm, far better off looking at why and how they became that way inclined in the first instance and act at that stage surely?

 

[jd101k2000]

Having explained the reason for clipping, I should have said that I don't, currently, do it. I work from home.

That said, I may start clipping at the out-apiary. (OK, a friend's back garden.)

I am told that both of the clipping methods above are good. A variation on joctcl's is to do the same thing in a 'syringe-style' queen marking cage. Queen reverses while in the cage, tip of wing pokes through the mesh, clip it off with sharp scissors, no danger to the queen.

Still gives me anxiety thinking about doing it: even surgeons normally work on human-sized, unconscious patients, not bee-sized, moving ones!

 

[joctcl]

Just realised why I stopped clipping, my eyesight is failing me in my mid 40's