Cider or wine?

[jonnybeegood]

I thought i would have a go making cider having a glut of apples this year. I followed a recipe on you tube as follows. Chopped & pressed apples, put juice in bucket, add wine yeast, leave for a week, rack off into a demi john, add 350g of sugar, leave to ferment. Now have i made cider or wine, this seems like wine to me, i had a pint or two thinking it was cider & could hardly get out of my chair

 

[pargyle]

I thought i would have a go making cider having a glut of apples this year. I followed a recipe on you tube as follows. Chopped & pressed apples, put juice in bucket, add wine yeast, leave for a week, rack off into a demi john, add 350g of sugar, leave to ferment. Now have i made cider or wine, this seems like wine to me, i had a pint or two thinking it was cider & could hardly get out of my chair

It's not what you call it - it's the alcoholic content ... did you check the original specific gravity of the must - some apples are fairly high in sugar content and adding another 350g of sugar could well have pushed the alcohol levels up to quite a high level .. Some 'rough' ciders are pretty potent compared to the 'managed' stuff you get on tap or in plastic bottles ...

Do you remember White Lighning Cider from the 1990's ? Started out at 8.5% alcohol but eventually was reduced to 5.5% because Government felt that too many people were using it as a cheap way to get off their heads ! Perhaps you won't remember it !!!

 

[jonnybeegood]

Ha! I vaguely remember white lightening
No i didnt check the SG before i started but i think the alcohol finished off the yeast. Ive been told i shouldnt have added sugar & stopped the fermentation once it reached approx %5 to 6. Would that be right? I have 6 gallon to get through before i try again next year

 

[pargyle]

Ha! I vaguely remember white lightening
No i didnt check the SG before i started but i think the alcohol finished off the yeast. Ive been told i shouldnt have added sugar & stopped the fermentation once it reached approx %5 to 6. Would that be right? I have 6 gallon to get through before i try again next year

Yep .. 5-6% is about right for a cider that you can drink in pints .. nothing wrong with apple wine though - matures into quite a pleasant fruit wine. Rack it out when it is clear and put a couple of gallons aside to mature for a year - you will be pleasantly surprised. Make sure it has stopped fermenting (a bubble trap for a week or two should tell you) and then cork it well or it will turn into vinegar.

There are people I know of (not me of course) who put half a gallon in a plastic bottle in the freezer.... then drain the higher alcohol content spirit off the frozen water and used it to fortify their apple wine ... the extra alcohol turns the basic wine into a really nice dessert wine. Obviously, freezing is distillation by 'any means' and is illegal ... which is why I don't do it !

 

[farbee]

Yep .. 5-6% is about right for a cider that you can drink in pints .. nothing wrong with apple wine though - matures into quite a pleasant fruit wine. Rack it out when it is clear and put a couple of gallons aside to mature for a year - you will be pleasantly surprised. Make sure it has stopped fermenting (a bubble trap for a week or two should tell you) and then cork it well or it will turn into vinegar.

There are people I know of (not me of course) who put half a gallon in a plastic bottle in the freezer.... then drain the higher alcohol content spirit off the frozen water and used it to fortify their apple wine ... the extra alcohol turns the basic wine into a really nice dessert wine. Obviously, freezing is distillation by 'any means' and is illegal ... which is why I don't do it !

Well maybe to the Goverment but as a chemist they are totally different processes so ...... I may just have to experiment.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Yep .. 5-6% is about right for a cider that you can drink in pints .. nothing wrong with apple wine though - matures into quite a pleasant fruit wine. Rack it out when it is clear and put a couple of gallons aside to mature for a year - you will be pleasantly surprised. Make sure it has stopped fermenting (a bubble trap for a week or two should tell you) and then cork it well or it will turn into vinegar.

There are people I know of (not me of course) who put half a gallon in a plastic bottle in the freezer.... then drain the higher alcohol content spirit off the frozen water and used it to fortify their apple wine ... the extra alcohol turns the basic wine into a really nice dessert wine. Obviously, freezing is distillation by 'any means' and is illegal ... which is why I don't do it !

I'm loving the freezing & fortifying idea, shame its illegsl so i cant do it of course.
As i collected dozens of plastic screw top bottles for my "cider" can i use these for the wine? Most wine nowadays are screw top anyway, i just wonder if the plastic would taint the wine over time

 

[pargyle]

Well maybe to the Goverment but as a chemist they are totally different processes so ...... I may just have to experiment.

Obviously, as you are not actually distilling the 'wine' by heat to get at the alcohol, it is a much safer process if you are intending using the distillate for fortifying wines (It's a bit rough if you taste it on its own) ... and of course it does not produce as high a concentration of alcohol as there is a point where the alcohol content of the remaining liquid in the polythene bottle lowers its own freezing point to a temperature lower than that you can achieve in a domestic freezer ... but it's enough ... or so I am told !

 

[pargyle]

I'm loving the freezing & fortifying idea, shame its illegsl so i cant do it of course.
As i collected dozens of plastic screw top bottles for my "cider" can i use these for the wine? Most wine nowadays are screw top anyway, i just wonder if the plastic would taint the wine over time

I usually use glass demijohns but I know people who use PET bottles and swear by them ... no apparent taste issues.

 

[Dishmop]

Sounds to me as if you ought to try it in your car..

 

[jonnybeegood]

I usually use glass demijohns but I know people who use PET bottles and swear by them ... no apparent taste issues.

Ive brewed it in glass demi johns after the initial fermentation in a bucket, need to bottle it now so i have a load of plastic bottles to sterilise then. I will leave 2 demi johns for a year then .

 

[pargyle]

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-01/beersci-how-make-strong-beer-stronger

I think it's slightly more legal and a bit more common across the 'Pond' - perhaps you should send Mike Palmer a gallon ...

 

[oliver90owner]

The advice must be: Never believe hat you see on the internet unless you have corroborative evidence.

Now, I have a very good second hand book on winemaking which I would sell to you for a tenner (and an extra £2.50 shipping and handling charge, of course).

It is called 'First Steps in Winemaking' by C J J Berry. It does include a small section on cider.

 

[pargyle]

You might find this thread interesting ...

http://www.reddit.com/r/firewater/comments/1iu2u1/freeze_distillation/

Lots of good reasons not to try and concentrate the alcohol by heat distillation (apart from the fact that it's illegal ... !).

Better not let us know (Publicly !) how you get on .... Hic ...

 

[jonnybeegood]

The advice must be: Never believe hat you see on the internet unless you have corroborative evidence.

Now, I have a very good second hand book on winemaking which I would sell to you for a tenner (and an extra £2.50 shipping and handling charge, of course).

It is called 'First Steps in Winemaking' by C J J Berry. It does include a small section on cider.

No thanks ive just bought one off Azon for a fiver!

 

[oliver90owner]

No thanks ive just bought one off Azon for a fiver!

Well, you are learning, but only slowly. The book is free from the net as a download. Ha ha ha.

 

[jonnybeegood]

You might find this thread interesting ...

http://www.reddit.com/r/firewater/comments/1iu2u1/freeze_distillation/

Lots of good reasons not to try and concentrate the alcohol by heat distillation (apart from the fact that it's illegal ... !).

Better not let us know (Publicly !) how you get on .... Hic ...

Mmmm, this is actually freezing before brewing, too late for me, & i wouldnt have room for 6 gallon in the freezer ;-)

 

[pargyle]

The advice must be: Never believe hat you see on the internet unless you have corroborative evidence.

Now, I have a very good second hand book on winemaking which I would sell to you for a tenner (and an extra £2.50 shipping and handling charge, of course).

It is called 'First Steps in Winemaking' by C J J Berry. It does include a small section on cider.

The bible of all winemakers - my copy is well thumbed and nearly falling apart from years of use, was first published in 1960 and is still in print having now sold over 3 million copies ... I started making my own wines from it in about 1973 ... CJJ Berry died in 2002 having retired to Spain and I suspect First Steps along with his other tomes 'Home Brewed Beers and Stouts' and '130 New Winemaking Recipes' were an important addition to his pension. I didn't rate his beer book much and some of the recipes in his later wine book were a little too 'country' for my tastes ... I recall Beetroot Sherry as one of the more disasterous concoctions ...

 

[pargyle]

Mmmm, this is actually freezing before brewing, too late for me, & i wouldnt have room for 6 gallon in the freezer ;-)

No ... read on ... a bit further down ...

 

[Dishmop]

Ha! I vaguely remember white lightening

sounds about right..rather like remembering the 60's

 

[farbee]

Could you do this with mead? Or is it too high in alcohol already?