Checking if to feed

[johnfranklyn]

Hello Forum members.
Am eighty one and find now hefting my hives to estimate if feed for the winter is needed I get spots before my eyes.
I wonder if a forum member has information where I could find a lever to tilt the hive onto two of its feet and measure its approx weight on some form of spring scale? If its a daft question sorry, just trying to find an easier way to work. I thought of many multi hived bee keepers who could use such a gadget.

 

[Finman]

.
Only way is to open the hive and look how much they have sores there.
You cannot compare weight to another's hives.

So you will see there capped food, brood and empty cells. If they have not much brood, feed the hive so much that it does notsuck any more syrup.

First shrink the wintering space as much s possible.

Sugar is sheap. Don't save it.

After that you may weigh it with bathroom balance and put in note what is the goal weight.

 

[Poly Hive]

The above has missed the point totally.

I seem to remember some time ago reading about something along the lever and spring balance lines.

Have a look at this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-scale-to-weigh-bee-hives/

or: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qUY-TgRVMo

Best wishes.

PH

 

[Istel]

I have huge respect for Finman, so would generally give him the last word.
However I do use a homemade gadget myself, which I have found useful.
It has two legs, about six foot long, joined in an 'A' shape at the top, with a four foot horizontal bar hinged to the joint. The legs are stood in front of the entrance, and the bar rests on the shoulder of the beekeeper, behind the hive. From the centre of the horizontal bar, over the hive, a spring balance is suspended. This has a hook below from which hang four chains. These chains are first attached to permanent 'cup hooks' in each corner of the hive floor.The horizontal bar is lifted by raising the shoulder a few inches, and the weight is read off the spring balance which is close to eye-level. So it can be done by one person without much effort, and takes about 2 mins per colony.
I have cup hooks like this (small ones) in all my hive floors.
The decline in weight can then be followed over the winter. This is probably more for interest than real value. It is remarkable how the colonies vary.

 

[oliver90owner]

Istel,

Clearly a working system.

JF,

For a becoming-frail 81 year old, I would suggest hefting each side with a gadget such as that used by Istel (obviously a modified connection to the hive to prevent it falling sideways when lifted if on a stand).

Electonic digital luggage scales are cheap and most of the less-than-cheapest have a memory function where the maximum weight is recorded, so no need (when used to the set up) to read the scale at the same time as lifting. With only half the weight to be lifted, it should keep you going for another ten years or so.

 

[itma]

You could make a lever system, or if you can manage half the hive's weight you could put a hook on each side of the lowest part you intend to lift (in my case, the floor).
I used (fairly small) "galvanised cleat" hooks from B&Q.

A luggage scale from Asda or Poundland costs less than a pair of hooks!
I've got a digital one from Lidl. Bleeps and then holds the weight reading (backlit display) making it really easy to read. Cost maybe £7.
A loop of braided cord goes round the hook and takes the scale/handle up to a nice height.
Lift each side (straight up), and add both sides. Not very difficult, since you can adjust the cord length to put the lifting effort at the ideal height.


A lever could require less strength to operate, but will probably involve a compression (rather than tension) scale. Bathroom scales work in compression, but they tend to be bigger, much more expensive, less accurate, and less rugged than luggage scales.

 

[Istel]

The gadget I described above lifts the hive clean off the stand, so is an accurate absolute weight. However the horizontal beam acts as a lever, so only about a third of the hive's actual weight has to be lifted, and that is by the back, so is not much of an issue. (A picture would probably be clearer, sorry!)

 

[johnfranklyn]

Hefting hives

Thanks a bundle for all your kind advice Gentlemen. This forum is a source of much good information. I feel I can solve the spots before the eyes very well now. johnfranklyn.

 

[Finman]

You could make a lever system, or if you can manage half the hi.
Bathroom scales work in compression, but they tend to be bigger, much more expensive, less accurate, and less rugged than luggage scales.

good mine

i have cost 1 euro about that spring scale in second hand shop.

Accurate?

I weight the hive from from side when 2/3 out of sugar has been feeded.

I need not the real weight. I need only know that it has enough food for next 8 months.

One box hives I do not weight. I feed them full.


No problem. Works fine.

.

.

 

[DanBee]

I've got a digital one from Lidl. Bleeps and then holds the weight reading (backlit display) making it really easy to read. Cost maybe £7.
A loop of braided cord goes round the hook and takes the scale/handle up to a nice height.
Lift each side (straight up), and add both sides. Not very difficult, since you can adjust the cord length to put the lifting effort at the ideal height.

By coincidence, there's going to be something in the next issue of Beecraft on this very subject, with this very device

 

[MJBee]

PH's u tube link shows the hive being lifted on one side. The commentator then says "multiply the weight by FOUR" - slip of the tongue or something I'm missing?

I use a luggage scale and weigh both sides of the hive, add the weights and that works for me. What is interesting - and frightening - is the rate at which the weight falls once brooding starts in February - fondant always at the ready

 

[itma]

PH's u tube link shows the hive being lifted on one side. The commentator then says "multiply the weight by FOUR" - slip of the tongue or something I'm missing?

I use a luggage scale and weigh both sides of the hive, add the weights and that works for me. What is interesting - and frightening - is the rate at which the weight falls once brooding starts in February - fondant always at the ready

Lifting both sides in turn, just a fraction and with a vertical (straight up, not angled) pull, then adding the two weights together will give a pretty accurate weight for that hive.

 

[oliver90owner]

The commentator then says "multiply the weight by FOUR" - slip of the tongue or something I'm missing?

Apart from the obvious x2 not x4, these systems which only weigh one side are open to new beeks being befuddled when the bees use up all the stores from one half of the box only. They then won't know whether they have a colony with 100% or zero stores, (or thinking there has been none used at all!). Some will need to think about that.

 

[Finman]

.
Use your brains....

.

 

[stephenpug]

What should a healthy hive weigh ??

 

[drstitson]

if hefting really is a problem why not just ensure that each hive has been really well fed in autumn and gets a decent "insurance" block of fondant midwinter.

 

[Poly Hive]

Indeed

KISS

PH

 

[itma]

What should a healthy hive weigh ??

Take a look at what I wrote on another thread last month
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=274355&highlight=weight#post274355

 

[alanf]

or: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qUY-TgRVMo

A few points struck me watching the device operate. One was that as you pull the lever down, it covers the display and makes it harder to read. A reproducible number for the weight could be useful whatever number you multiply it by but if you are going to the trouble of weighing the hive accurately, restricting the apparatus to weighing one side only misses pattern shifts in stores consumption (or storage if you're going through the summer). They obviously recognise the need to keep the hive level by adding a spirit level to the base, does that imply you have to pack the base and rebuild the hive to correct small shifts in the stand every time? Checking the prices in their web site, the total apparatus delivered for one hive was over 120 quid, yet digital scales similar to the one at the heart of the frame start at under 2 quid from the far east on ebay.

It's a lot of effort and cost and less convenient than it might be to get not very accurate results. I do like the idea of weighing the hive, and trialled a couple last winter using scales and a few screws per hive. Lots of geeky entertainment to be had . Building in load cells to a stand would be ideal but expensive. There should be simpler and better ways of arranging a lever to make a lift on scales each side more reproducible.

 

[Skyhook]

Apart from the obvious x2 not x4, these systems which only weigh one side are open to new beeks being befuddled when the bees use up all the stores from one half of the box only. They then won't know whether they have a colony with 100% or zero stores, (or thinking there has been none used at all!).