Can't find queen

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

The first hive we received last year did not have the queen marked as it was our first year bee keeping we did not mark her ourself. This afternoon we tried to AS but we can't find the queen should we leave it untill tomorrow before we try again? Help please

 

[VEG]

loads of posts on here about finding the queen if you search you will get loads of answers

 

[luckydunny]

I had same problem last two days. So Searched forum and found lots of ideas.

One I had not thought of was that she might be already gone but as I could not see sealed queen cell was uncertain.

So I did a true shook swarm into a new brood box and hoped I shaked the queen in. Very nerve wracking as a brood and a half. Brushed frame with unsealed Queen cell I want to keep and put Q/E on top of new brood with new foundation. Placed Parent hive over till afternoon to allow nurse bees to climb up to brood.

Moved to new position in afternoon and crossed fingers.

Still not sure Queen on old site as not seen any fanning at entrance. Will leave a couple of days whilst feeding syrup to see if any eggs. Not confident have done it right but have done my best.

 

[For want of a better word]

Robbie... did you check for eggs/
with a sealed queen cell she may have flown already... do the AS ... sweep all the bees into the new brood with new foundation, stick on qe and put seald brood etc on top.
let em all clamber up to, remove box of bees a few feet away set on new floor etc. I feed both lots at this point. flyers will go back to old box with queen if she is there.
Raid the brood frames you shifted to new site for some with eggs and put in old box.. leaving some as well... then if queen gone old colony will raise a new queen as will new colony

AS on four colonies today !... must be the weather ? phase of moon / asteroid collision or something !!

 

[oliver90owner]

then if queen gone old colony will raise a new queen as will new colony

Folly. If a swarm has already gone (say with half the bees) and now you have split them again, there are going to be very much fewer bees in a full sized box to draw emergency queen cells. Recipe for a disaster, IMO. Possibly get away with it but not worth the bother, IMO.

 

[For want of a better word]

then if queen gone old colony will raise a new queen as will new colony

Folly. If a swarm has already gone (say with half the bees) and now you have split them again, there are going to be very much fewer bees in a full sized box to draw emergency queen cells. Recipe for a disaster, IMO. Possibly get away with it but not worth the bother, IMO.

True, but OP did not say why he wanted to carry out an AS..... were there UNCAPPED swarm cells ?
If she had not left the hive and hive was full of a mass of bees... an unmarked queen can be very difficult to find... then an AS would reduce the number of bees to look through.... before carrying out a split.
Weather on Rame has been very variable... our Maritime Climate again !

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Found her

Thank you to those kind people who replyed on the second visit 1 hour later jan spotted the queen we move her and 2 other frames to a Nuc I built yesterday, the rain cleared up here an hour ago I have notice bees leaving the nuc but none returning the nuc is approx 2mts away from existing hive? hope all is well its our first time we have attempted this. Once again thank you to those who find the time to help US NEWBEES.

 

[tonybloke]

the queen in the nuc should be on the old site!!

 

[For want of a better word]

the queen in the nuc should be on the old site!!

Confusing... the queen should be in the brood box you swept the brood into before the bees moved up thru the qe and on the original site.
the nuc or brood box bees moved up into should be on a new stance a few feet away so flying bees can return to original site and help the queen raise new brood providing pollen nectar and some even reverting back to nurse bees.
Some would advise putting a couple of frames of sealed brood with covering bees back into the old box from the new to help things along.
Dave Cushman's site recommends swapping the new and old hive sites around weekly ? to balance the brood and flying bees

How many ways to skin a cat ?

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Ohwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The booklet we received from the BBKA sail move the old queen to the nuc place 2 frames of brood and stores in with her and move nuc 2mtr away from old site face nuc entrance against hedge bottom to advoid robbing? Have i got it wrong then?

 

[oliver90owner]

If she had not left the hive and hive was full of a mass of bees

Read my post. I said 'If she has gone....'. Expecting half of half a colony in a full box, or even a nuc is simply asking for a scrub queen - but you do need to read my post! Just postulating an ad hoc do this do that is not too clever. Consideration needs to be given to the bees' situation. Think about it.

 

[For want of a better word]

The booklet we received from the BBKA sail move the old queen to the nuc place 2 frames of brood and stores in with her and move nuc 2mtr away from old site face nuc entrance against hedge bottom to advoid robbing? Have i got it wrong then?

Read Cushman's site !

BBKA recommend icing sugar as a varroa treatment and matchsticks under the crownboard over winter to ventilate the hive

My old University professor said "Read Widely "

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Hi, no we found the queen and put her in the nuc with two full frames of brood and stores and move her 2mts away from the odl hive/

 

[oliver90owner]

B]Have i got it wrong then?[/B]

If the flying bees are not going to the old queen, then the booklet should certainly say remove all but one queen cell in the full brood box. Otherwise that is simply asking for a cast. In a week or so time there will be loads of bees at all stages of life -ideal for a cast. That is why Padgen refined his A/S system.

Then, if that one cell fails for any reason, that colony will likely soon have laying workers. Good enitt? He didn't refine his method and have it adopted by most beekeepers without good reason - it was the best all-round option.

Perhaps there were other reasons for the B8KA to advocate that method - like a shortage of kit, or to reserve the queen for breeding purposes (slow down her lay-rate for a while).

I recommend sticking to Padgen; a good and reliable method which works.

RAB

 

[For want of a better word]

The booklet we received from the BBKA sail move the old queen to the nuc place 2 frames of brood and stores in with her and move nuc 2mtr away from old site face nuc entrance against hedge bottom to advoid robbing? Have i got it wrong then?

Tractor Man has it... methinks you have got it wrong Robbie!

The idea is to fool the bees into thinking they have swarmed, and the old queen they went off with has come home to roost... but where have all the brood and non flying nurse bees we left behind gone?

Think about it !

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Its been raining all day is it to late to change it back as the odl queen has been away all night

 

[oliver90owner]

methinks you have got it wrong Robbie!

Well, I am certainly not going to agree with you!

An alternative, yes, wrong, no. But my recommendation is mine and it stands.

The answer to your question is nowhere. They are still at the same place!

 

[For want of a better word]

methinks you have got it wrong Robbie!

Well, I am certainly not going to agree with you!
( THAT would be a red letter day !)

An alternative, yes, wrong, no. But my recommendation is mine and it stands.

Embrace the chaos !

The answer to your question is nowhere. They are still at the same place!

try this... the weather is an influence....
http://mainebeekeepers.org/information-for-beekeepers/swarming-reviewed/

one question / 3 beekeeperers/ 7 different answers !