Building a colony up vs varroa treatment

[Anthony.]

Hi All,

I recently posted a question in the general section but thought i would raise one here as 1) its more suitable here and 2) i did a terrible job at articulating my question!

So here goes....

We have a newish nuc going well, brood on circa 5 frames, drawing out the rest. I have been checking varroa levels and know i need to treat.

We recently had the local bee inspector round who mentioned two things.... for the given level of varrora we should look at using something like apivar. And also our aim should be to keep feeding so we get the bees through winter with a super.

For absolutely clarity our number one goal is health and preservation - nothing else.

However my question is this - assuming I put apivar in this weekend , and assuming as I keep feeding they end up needing a super during the treatment, what does that mean next year for the super? - i.e. i should never look to take honey from it? Should my long term goal be to run this as a brood and a half?

 

[Beefriendly]

One suggestion might to be prepare for winter with your super underneath your brood box (nadired). This way it will be empty of all sugar stores come spring.
Brood and a half is a painful way to run....and the size of your hive really depends on the fecundity of your queen, not the beekeepers idea of what he/she would like to run.

 

[mbc]

If you have a varroa issue in a newish nuc I'd not worry about a super but let them fully build out a brood box for the six weeks of apivar treatment and only think about a super afterwards if they need the space( which isn't all that likely as bees in most areas will be slowing down as the season draws on and the days get shorter).

 

[Anthony.]

If you have a varroa issue in a newish nuc I'd not worry about a super but let them fully build out a brood box for the six weeks of apivar treatment and only think about a super afterwards if they need the space( which isn't all that likely as bees in most areas will be slowing down as the season draws on and the days get shorter).

Thanks for the response.

I’m completely happy if that is the case but my question was what should I do if they do look like they need a super?

 

[Anthony.]

One suggestion might to be prepare for winter with your super underneath your brood box (nadired). This way it will be empty of all sugar stores come spring.
Brood and a half is a painful way to run....and the size of your hive really depends on the fecundity of your queen, not the beekeepers idea of what he/she would like to run.

Very valid points! Why is a brood and a half painful? And out of curiosity why does the use of stores get cleared out with a super underneath?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Very valid points! And out of curiosity why does the use of stores get cleared out with a super underneath?

Bees don’t like stores underneath them where they are difficult to defend. Their winter configuration would be to put the brood at the entrance and the stores behind. It’s a good way to move uncapped honey you can’t extract. If they have sufficient room in the brood a decent colony will clear a super in a matter of days.

 

[butchtaylor909]

if you have to use a super during the treatment i would not use it for honey in the future.
The manufacture say that the treated frames should not be recycled to honey frames.

 

[Anthony.]

Bees don’t like stores underneath them where they are difficult to defend. Their winter configuration would be to put the brood at the entrance and the stores behind. It’s a good way to move uncapped honey you can’t extract. If they have sufficient room in the brood a decent colony will clear a super in a matter of days.

fascinating thank you!

if you have to use a super during the treatment i would not use it for honey in the future.
The manufacture say that the treated frames should not be recycled to honey frames.

Sorry this is my fault for not making my question clear. I know this is the case.... my question is what do i then do with said super?

 

[Poly Hive]

Why is brood and a half painful?

The answer is one word: compatibility.

If all your brood frames are the same then moving one from one colony to another is not a problem.

If the frame you are moving, say for use as a Test Frame then there is that awkward gap below which invariably will be filled with drone comb. Etc etc and on it goes.

It's unwieldy in short.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if you have to use a super during the treatment i would not use it for honey in the future.
The manufacture say that the treated frames should not be recycled to honey frames.

No they don't, in fact, quite the opposite - the manufacturer actually says it's perfectly safe - from their website:

Studies have proven that under normal conditions and use Apivar® is harmless for the bee and for all products made in the hive. Investigations designed to detect residues of active substance in honey, wax, propolis and pollen have shown that you may harvest these products immediately after the end of the treatment period, no withdrawal time being necessary.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We recently had the local bee inspector round who mentioned two things.... for the given level of varrora we should look at using something like apivar. And also our aim should be to keep feeding so we get the bees through winter with a super.

I'll give him the apivar but feeding? still plenty of time to get that into them, and I don't really understand the necessity of a super for winter. Most of my colonies sail through on a single brood box and seldom need an emergency topup in the new year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'll give him the apivar but feeding? still plenty of time to get that into them, and I don't really understand the necessity of a super for winter. Most of my colonies sail through on a single brood box and seldom need an emergency topup in the new year.

Yes. Too early in my opinion.
Where is the queen going to lay her winter bees if the frames are stuffed with stores?

 

[Millet]

Yes. Too early in my opinion.
Where is the queen going to lay her winter bees if the frames are stuffed with stores?

If she is still alive after all that chemical palava ..

 

[Woodland bees]

if you have to use a super during the treatment i would not use it for honey in the future.
The manufacture say that the treated frames should not be recycled to honey frames.

Do you mean Api Life Var? The instructions for that state "Do not use during honey flow in order to avoid to adulterate the taste of the honey" and you're recommended to remove the supers but I can't find anything that says don't reuse the frames. The withdrawal period is zero days as well, but I do note the frames can keep a Thymol smell for a few months.

 

[mbc]

"Newish nuc brood on five frames drawing out the rest"
Bee inspector feels it necessary to advise apivar.
I would feed until all the frames are drawn and also treat before they go downhill, agreed on no need for a super, I can't think why that advice was given.

 

[butchtaylor909]

Do you mean Api Life Var? The instructions for that state "Do not use during honey flow in order to avoid to adulterate the taste of the honey" and you're recommended to remove the supers but I can't find anything that says don't reuse the frames. The withdrawal period is zero days as well, but I do note the frames can keep a Thymol smell for a few months.

the question was about apivar and i mean apivar, not apilife var.
Apivar contains Amitraz where as the apilife var contains, thymol and essential oils.

No they don't, in fact, quite the opposite - the manufacturer actually says it's perfectly safe - from their website:

The Apivar leaflet says at the bottom in small print.
"do not recycle brood frames as honey frames"
however since you should not have a super on this surely means any frame size that is fitted during treatment.

All i saw on their website was,
"Apivar is an amitraz-based miticide for honey bees. Prescription drug. Please refer to your vet. Carefully read the instructions on the package leaflet before use." and the leaflet says that honey supers are not to be fitted during treatment and frames not reused for honey.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't really understand the necessity of a super for winter. Most of my colonies sail through on a single brood box and seldom need an emergency topup in the new year.

Depends on the bees really
My bees just about manage in a 10 frame 14x12 but then they are orange