Brood/half or 14x12 national hives.

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Curly green fingers

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I'm thinking of going to 14x12 frames next year I've 4 brood/half st nats.. hives/collonys at the moment.
And think 14x12s would be a lot easier for moving frames around ect...
It's been a pain in the but on brood/half so I want to change things any thoughts?
I'm in the process of buying more equipment , or might wait untill there's some sales on?
Cheers mark.
 
I'm thinking of going to 14x12 frames next year I've 4 brood/half st nats.. hives/collonys at the moment.
And think 14x12s would be a lot easier for moving frames around ect...
It's been a pain in the but on brood/half so I want to change things any thoughts?
I'm in the process of buying more equipment , or might wait untill there's some sales on?
Cheers mark.
Hi this is our first year and we have only had the colony a few months, we were advised to get 12 x 14 national, and it does give them plenty of space for brood and stores, im OK but my better half has noticed that they are quite heavy when full and has to rest them on something to spend any time inspecting the frames as it makes her back ache, and the hives are at waist height.
 
14x12 gives you more room than BS Deep but the frames are awful.
Go double brood, you will not require any change in equipment and your brood frames will all be the same size. Don't listen when people say they are a pain to inspect.
 
Depends on circumstance, 14x12 cover most bases without being too heavy for moving to crops, if moving around is not an issue double brood. I personally have no issue with the frames, just need to be careful when handling them.
 
14x12 gives you more room than BS Deep but the frames are awful.
Go double brood, you will not require any change in equipment and your brood frames will all be the same size. Don't listen when people say they are a pain to inspect.
:iagree:
I have both and find double brood a lot easier to work.
S
 
I'm on std national with 3 hives and 14x12 on one due to not wanting to squish a nice big swarm queen when I united and the only frames I had were 14x12... to be honest they will end up on std next year but I have no issues with either....
 
Commercial frames are a better option than 14×12 imo and the boxes are easier to make.
But double broid national can increase your options and has no real drawbacks unless you start to have more serious hive numbers.
 
For me its standard double broods all the way and far more versatile, in use as supers as well. If colonys are large enough they stay on doubles for winter if i can squeeze the into a single box then thats how it goes. 14X12 is basicaly brood and half and decent queens will fill that no problems. Seen a few 14x12 frames break on lug joint when full of honey as well
 
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Thanks for the replys, I want to get away from having two sized frames.weights not an issue. But brais comb is between boxes. I don't use QE either. I was equiting A st nats brood/half to 14x12s .
So I was thinking this would be easier less boxes less brais comb.
My circumstances are that in 2019 I plan to get up to 20 hives maybe more .
I started the year with one st nats hive now I've 4 brood/half and two buckfast collonys in st nats hives . The buckfast collonys were bought as package bee's 5 frames in early July, and have supers of honey from HB this season. I can see that next year there going to need double brood.
" Buckfast bee's are not lazy" more than one person has said this to me this season .
In your face ace!
Cheers mark.
 
I think of what the bees would prefer. I can cope with 14 x 12 frames with no more trouble than deeps, but the boxes are much heavier to lug around (who would move a deep and shallow as a single lift?), but the bees are more important than the beekeeper having an easy time!

Wintering on 14 x 12 means one box. They do not need to move between tiers of frames all year round. But there will be more honey in an extra deep at harvest.

How many eggs your queens can lay in a 25 day period is the real criterion re number of brood boxes. I find that a single brood box is adequate for all but the most prolific bees at peak laying time.

Of course, if your queen lays 5000 eggs per day (yes beano has claimed this, before now) you may need more than 70,000 brooding cells unless, as beano’s queen did, she supposedly stops laying after ten or 12 days and takes a rest!

Overwintering on one full box is, IMO, better and easier than two - and with 14 x 12 boxes, the bees can cluster that much higher in the frames in cold periods. No risk of forgetting to remove a QE, either. If frames are fed back under the brood box in the autumn, they can be spread out (deters waxmoth) but left over the winter without any fear of being brooded in before the first spring inspection, while providing extra protection from any turbulent draughts around the OMF. Somewhere to store a few frames, too.

Old deeps can simply be converted to 14 x12 by fixing an eke below the box. Easily reverted to deeps if one decides the format is not for you. A deep and a shallow will accommodate brood frames as an emergency extra hive , if necessary.

Most ways round, an improved home for the bees - and that is not taking into account all the extra disruption inflicted (on the wax between boxes) at every inspection.

Your choice. I changed to 14 x 12 after my second year. Went top bee space, too. I don’t intend changing back, even though I am another 15 years, or so, aged and not even able to carry a full shallow of honey too far these days.
 
I’ve came from a double brood family but have been a 14x12 fan for a while and if you’d have asked me last year I’d have said go 14x12 everytime but this year that all changed and I’ll be going back to double brood next year.

Where I live I don’t usually get summer honey so in several years of running 14x12 it’s been great as there has been less brood box lifting but this year most of my hives became totally honey bound to the point where there was no empty space for the queens to lay and that’s where the problem of 14x12 came to light. Even with supers on the top most of my hives never put much honey in there and most frames were only partly filled.

If I’d have had normal brood boxes, I could have manipulated boxes and/or frames about to allow me to work around the honeybound hive. With 14x12 and no spare 14x12 boxes I couldn’t so I ended up removing he queen excluders and letting her lay in supers. So next year I’m going to have a whole mess to sort out especially as I can’t spin the bigger frames out to re feed the honey back to their own hives.

My hives now have 3 supers below a 14x12 box full of honey. What a pain.

Come back double brood, all is forgiven!
 
If you're not into moving your bees around to specific crops, go for 14x12 every time. Much simpler than double brood and the queens like the bigger frames for laying. Mine usually completely fill each frame. Also you will rarely have overwintering starvation problems as plenty of room for the bees to pack stores away.

Never had a problem with frames falling apart, i use Hoffman frames and no problems. Buy seconds in one of the sales, you can also get converters to add to your existing std nationals to convert to 14x12.

Go for it!
 
I like my 14x12
Lots of room for the queen and stores
Stan and I even managed a rolling Demarree on one this year.
 
It sounds like the 14x12 seem to be the way I'll be going. I think double brood would be to much for my local black bee's I had one colony on double but ended up putting to many dummy frames in , there now split and on brood/half. No one local is on double or 14 12s the majority are running brood/half .
Thanks Oliver for that insite very helpful cheers folks.
 
14x12 gives you more room than BS Deep but the frames are awful.
Go double brood, you will not require any change in equipment and your brood frames will all be the same size. Don't listen when people say they are a pain to inspect.

Personally I view 14x12 as an abomination, commercial would be a better choice if wanting a bigger single box, but neither is big enough at times.

Standard double brood, much faster to work and much more choice for various manipulations as and when needed.
 
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I started with 14x12s but I’m thinking of going back to standard nationals (double as required). I’m not sure though. 14x12 frames are heavy but haven’t caused me an issue, other than when I attempted a vertical Snelgrove with 2 supers on.

I’m thinking of moving back partly because I’m not sure all my colonies need the bigger box, and some seem to need more room. All but one of my brood boxes are nationals with ekes, so switching won’t require new boxes, just new frames.

My hesitation at this stage is mostly that I worked brood and a half with my mentor and disliked having to split the middle of the brood area to inspect.
 
I started out with 14 x 12 and even now I can comfortably handle the weight of a full brood box. Not that I need to do so more than a couple of times a year.
Over the last couple of years I've used standard national brood boxes as well. This is so I can sell colonies to association members as most (and certainly the beginners) use standard.
Rab and others have explained the benefits so I won't repeat them. Suffice to say the 14 x 12 colonies gave higher yields for me. Others may have different results.
 
I got rid of 14 x 12 boxes... total abomination!

Double brood or brood + 1/2 works with even the most prolific of bees.

I do have 20 + OSB / Rose hives and nucs to suit... but are used specifically in one breeding / mating apiary.

National hives and frame etc, including foundation is easy to source, and can be a knock down prices in the sales.

14 X 12 = bad back too!!

Chons da
 
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