brood box addition poll

[beecology]

Ok folks,

As a beginner, Im not totally sure wether to add another brood box or not so I thought this would make a good poll/discussion for other newcomers that ask the same question - options as follows;

1. I never add a second brood box
2. I always add a second brood box
3. I only add a second brood box when the 1st is full of brood
4. I add a shallow or super to make a brood and a half
5. Second brood boxes mean big colonies and are hard to handle so I only use 1 bro0d box
6. its common sense - when the 1st brood box is full of brood and stored honey, I add another brood box (even if I have already honey super on top)

My situation is currently number 6 on the list - the brood box is teeming, but the super is bare. Do I leave them to fill the super (queen excluder present) or do I add another brood box and put the super on top of that (too much empty space?)

Thanks one and all, I look forward to your opinions

 

[MartinL]

You missed, "I'm using 14X12"

 

[beecology]

You missed, "I'm using 14X12"

good point! The poll now applies only to those using BS National hives

 

[beecology]

Ok, well from what ive garnered from our friends across the pond, a second brood box can be added when approximately 80% of the frames contain brood/built up (8 out of 10 frames).

No supers added until the 2nd brood box is also getting full.

Id be happy for any further opinions.

 

[suni40]

Mohsin

My situation is currently number 6 on the list - the brood box is teeming, but the super is bare. Do I leave them to fill the super (queen excluder present) or do I add another brood box and put the super on top of that (too much empty space?)

 

[oliver90owner]

Weelll, number 6 is flawed for starters. Common sense tells me that a brood box is for brood, not to be filled with stores. Only in autumn would stores be arranged for around the brood nest and even then, consideration for brooding space is a parallel requirement. Would anyone add an extra brood at this time of the year, per eg, just because the rood box is full of brood and stores?

Numbers one and two are rubbish as well. Anyone who is a competent beekeeper would never say never or always. Bee keeping needs some thought, not intransigence.

Number three also needs qualification. A brood box full of brood with no stores can be a disaster in some circumstances - like they can starve very quickly if there are no stores.

Number four is also a laugh. A super is not a brood. Any sensible, accomplished beekeeper would know the difference between a shallow box being used as a brood or a super.

Yes, the obvious and simple choice of a better format has been omitted. One wonders why? A beginner designing a poll?

So, all in all, I think it is rather a waste of time as a training item for beginners. Learning about observing,and acting on those observations, would be a much better message to send out. Anyone who has fixed, predetermined actions will never make a decent beekeeper unless/until their ways change. There are loads out there that try to work simply by the calender. One might wonder where they get that idea from, as it is clearly a rediculous idea to anyone who even thinks just a little about how to keep bees.

Things like removal of stores frames, availability of drawn frames, lay-rate of the queen, considering time of the year, current weather and forage opportunities - and other sensible operations - should be encouraged, not just beekeeping by numbers.

Of course, at the other alternative - for reduction of brood size - is not even addressed in this thread.

See what I mean? Beekeeping by numbers does not work. Beekeeping without thinking does not work. You need to change your ways, not try to encourage others to operate like you. So, fairly useless for beginners, or any other beekeeper for that matter.

 

[REDWOOD]

Again 14x12 configuration.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Also 14 x 12.

And it's flawed to avoid this option - especially for beginners.

The reductio ad absurdum is this:

What value would the poll be if, in reality, 95% of beeks used 14 x 12 and 5% were using double brood? The result of your poll, to a beginner who knows nowt about it, would be that everyone uses double brood!

I do think this is an interesting question - but it does need clarification before becoming a poll.

And do you know that there is a poll facility on the Forum?
Means people vote before they have access to the results so far.

Dusty

 

[itma]

good point! The poll now applies only to those using BS National hives

Many beginners don't realise that a 14x12 is just an ordinary National, but deeper, giving brood-and-a-half "broodspace" in a single box.
I believe I am right in thinking that the "Extra Deep" (ie 14x12) box was specified at some point in the evolution of the no-longer-extant British Standard.

I think its an excellent option, and particularly for the newcomer to beekeeping, as it simplifies (or rather does away with) many of the issues that can arise when using multiple brood boxes.


Some of the most passionate devotees of multi-brood working are actually Langstroth, rather than National, users.

 

[itma]

Ok folks,

As a beginner, Im not totally sure wether to add another brood box or not …

My situation is currently number 6 on the list - the brood box is teeming, but the super is bare. Do I leave them to fill the super (queen excluder present) or do I add another brood box and put the super on top of that (too much empty space?)

Thanks one and all, I look forward to your opinions

My suggestion is that you put your empty box UNDER the brood.
Remove the QX. The Q must be able to go wherever the winter stores are - you mustn't 'exclude' her from ANY life-supporting stores!

The box under the brood should ideally have brood-spaced frames -- ie hoffmans, as it is part of the brood nest.
Whether it is deep or shallow isn't going to make much odds until next year*.
If the bees need it, they can use it.
If they don't need the space, they won't draw out the foundation.
Having the box available UNDER the existing brood gives them the option, rather than giving them a problem (a big cold headspace). If nothing else, the box under the brood will act as a draught-excluding "entrance hall" to the hive. (Leave your open mesh floor open over the winter - no inspection board in place. And close any holes in your 'crownboard'.)


* Brood and a half is awkward, limiting the beekeeper's options. Double brood is much more flexible, but can be heavy work and even rather intimidating for the novice. Which results in many using brood and a half as their least-worst option (often without considering 14x12).
But you can sort things out NEXT year after you have made your decision for your future over the winter.
For now, almost any box with frames UNDER the brood (but above the floor) will give the bees space to use IF they need it. They need to have a standard 'deep' National pretty damn full of stores before winter sets in.